Gottlieb System 3 blows F3 immediately (Won't Boot + Display Out)

Use a heat gun and warm up the MPU to see if you can get it to boot.
My MPU has that same problem when it gets warmed up and I would have to turn it off a miniumum of 15 minutes to let it cool down. Yours may be the opposite.

I assume there is no acid damage on the part just below the battery on the MPU. Is there?

Duplicate posting

triple posting.

Just...ugghh!!!

First check the voltages - 12vdc into the PS at pin 1 at the bottom connector, 5vdc out tthe top at any pin. Adjust with the pot on the PS.

If voltages are good try booting just the MPU and DMD - the two boards you need at a minimum to boot. These must be connected by the ribbon. The LEDs on the boards will blink to indicate they are running. If you get no blinking on the MPU you need to verify the ROM and check to make sure the battery did not leak taking out the watchdog below it (rare but possible.) You can also try swapping ribbons between the driver board and DMD. I've seen a bad ribbon keep the board from booting. I would also try pressing the reset button when its on to see if the board starts blinking. If it does you have either bad battery and/or bad watchdog.

viperrwk

Typical system3-problem!!! Change capacitors C20 + C21 and you will be happy again. From factory both are 1uF Tantal-capacitors, but you can take as an alternative two "normal" electrolytic capacitors 1uF 20V.

Best regards

Ingo

I just fixed my Shaq with the exact same problems by doing this. Apparently the caps are all dying at the same time.

YES!!!! But as said, you can take also "normal" capacitors (caution, these are polarized), mightbe better and easier to get at your local electronic-shop.

- Ingo

The original caps are spec'd at 50v. The Rat Crap ones you linked will work but never a good idea to go lower on rated caps.

Your problem could be the caps. Could be U11. This boot problem has been well discussed on RGP. You could also possibly solve the issue with a ROM update. If you're running anything less than v5, an update may fix it. Gottlieb did ROM updates around this time to fix this boot problem (v5 for Stargate for example.) Personally, I wouldn't jump into changing caps on the MPU board until I eliminated the easy stuff first.

viperrwk

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_3#Problems_and_Solutions

There's a good thing to read. Sounds like a board issue, but you'll have to troubleshoot it down some. Are any capacitors bulging? Any burnt connectors? Have you tested the voltage?

My comment was directed at the reset issue that Ingo was describing - not a reset with the display out that you are experiencing. Apologies - pronoun issue.

If F3 is blowing, you have a problem with the HV circuit on the display controller which is likely why you have no display. You probably need to rebuild the HV display section.

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=GTLB3-HVP-KIT&sprice=&stype=&scat=

I had a conversation with Ed about the caps a short time ago - he wasn't offering them with the kit but is now. While they are likely ok at the moment, given they are 20 years old, probably best to replace them with the rest of the HV section.

You should also double check the fuse holder. The twist holders on Sys3 are notorious for going bad.

If you are going to order from Ed, you should also get the GAL for the display controller from him as well:

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=U8G&sprice=&stype=&scat=

You won't find anyone else selling it for less. Between the GAL and HV rebuild that should solve your display problem (unless you also have a ribbon cable problem.)

If you do this you have to completely disconnect the display controller otherwise if you haven't already blown U8, you will. Of course, I'm not even sure the machine will boot as I've never tried to boot a Sys3 without the display controller.

viperrwk

I don't have a Shaq Attack, but I have had a bunch of other System3s and have the manuals in front of me for a couple of other System 3s.... F3 is listed as display on all of my other manuals. That being said, you won't get that game to boot without the display board booting.

Disconnect the power connectors going to your display board and power up.... Does the fuse still blow?

Well stated, you must have been responding the same time I was.

As far as booting CPUs, the DMD system 3s need the CPU to talk to the DMD board to boot, the alphanumeric System3s do not.

Thanks for confirming that Ralph. I've never tried to boot without the controller connected and I wasn't about to try now! I have enough things to fix and don't feel the need to add to the list.

viperrwk

I hear ya.... I rebuild the HV section on EVERY System 3 I get (I think I have had 10 of them), and I just go ahead and socket the U8 at the same time, LOL...

Go ahead and rebuild the HV section. It is needed on these games as they get older. It is pretty straightforward and simple as well. (if you are comfortable with an iron)

For any testing at all, the only thing we are focused on is getting the CPU and DMD board to talk to each other. Disconnect every connector in the backbox (and the DMD itself) and work your way outwards. So at first, the only thing we want connected is the CPU power, the ribbon between the CPU and DMD board), and the power connectors for the DMD driverboard.

If F3 is blowing with just these hooked up, turn the machine off, disconnect the power connectors from the DMD board, and take the ribbon off of one side (CPU or DMD, doesn't matter). Turn the machine back on, the only thing that will try to light is the CPU. Obviously the game won't boot, but this will allow you to see if F3 blows. If F3 still blows, your issue isn't on the board.

I wouldn't unless other things I tried first didn't work. I don't like taking an iron to a board if I don't have to - the exception being to change out 20+ year-old electrolytic caps. Tantalums don't have the same issues especially those that are derated like the ones in this circuit. Of course they can still fail but you have many other things to check before going after those caps.

viperrwk

Game will not boot without DMD controller.

???

viperrwk

At a minimum, your DMD needs replaced. Could be chicken and egg though, did board take out display or vice versa. What voltages are you getting on the power cable that goes to the DMD?

Need to verify your input voltages to the DMD controller. It seems to me you're only measuring half the voltage at P1. Meter on AC, red on pin 1, black on pin 2, should see around 58vac. Red on pin 3, black on pin 4 should see around 95vac. Meter on DC, red on pin 5, black on pin 10 should see 20vdc. Red on pin 9, black on 10 should see 5vdc. Without these voltages DMD will not work.

If you have these voltages, next check D1-D4 which rectifies the 58v to DC and D5-D8 which rectifies the 95v to DC. If all of these are good then you need to rebuild the HV section.

viperrwk

Yep, rebuild time. Voltages look fine but your 5 volt is a hair low. Don't adjust the 5 volt pot yet, just go ahead and rebuild the high voltage. If you are comfortable with an iron, socketing U8 while the board is out isn't a bad idea either.