Silver Slugger
Gottlieb, 1990Basically, nothing in column 6 is working on my Silver Slugger:
Top Hole
Right Pop Bumper
Right Spot Target #1
Right Spot Target #2
Right Spot Target #3
All are non-functional during game play.
In switch test mode, none of the switches register when I press them but in Solenoid test mode, all coils fire when triggered.
Any recommendation on what to check next?
Not being a jerk, but is it basically nothing, or nothing at all? Are there any other switches on that line? if so, check for a wire break upstream on one of the other switches on that line. If not, we can troubleshoot further upstream.
Agree with Ralph, this is a common error, a broken switch or a pulled wire in the row or column of switches, pull the manual, determine if indeed all switches are on that line or row/column... happens all the time. GTB used organic solder for a while and under lots of vibration it likes to let loose...
Okay guys, thanks for the help. Here's where I'm at:
Confirmed switches are in the same column (See picture)
Missed one switch that I didn't have listed earlier - SW 1 Right Coin Chute
Continuity tests fine from Right Coin Chute to Top Hole and from switch to switch.
In test mode, Right Coin Chute shows up when pressed but again, Right Pop Bumper, #1 Right Spot Target, #2 Right Spot Target, #3 Right Spot Target and Top Hole do not register when pressed.
Not really sure what I'm missing here.
Photo May 19, 7 42 58 PM.jpgOnce you start getting into the coin door things can get funky on these. I have had more coin door wiring issues on System 3s more so than any other machine. Since you know that they all share the blue-brown-brown wire, I would test continuity from the connector in the head back to each of the switches (including the coin switch). It sounds like you a have a break in this connection somewhere along the way.
Thanks for your help on this, Ralph. I really appreciate it. I was able to test everything last night and every switch on that line tests fine for continuity from the connector in the back box. I then re-flowed the solder on each switch and tested again. Continuity was still good but right coin chute is still the only switch that shows up in switch test mode when pressed.
Would a bad switch cause such behavior? This doesn't seem like a diode issue to me as other switches would be showing up in test mode along with the coin chute. I also looked at the lamp matrix but found nothing on there that shares that blue-brown-brown wire. This one really has me scratching my head.
Quoted from tjprice222:Thanks for your help on this, Ralph. I really appreciate it. I was able to test everything last night and every switch on that line tests fine for continuity from the connector in the back box. I then re-flowed the solder on each switch and tested again. Continuity was still good but right coin chute is still the only switch that shows up in switch test mode when pressed.
Would a bad switch cause such behavior? This doesn't seem like a diode issue to me as other switches would be showing up in test mode along with the coin chute. I also looked at the lamp matrix but found nothing on there that shares that blue-brown-brown wire. This one really has me scratching my head.
Ignore the blue-brown-brown.... I was reading the numbers from the schem you had posted, and using a different Gottlieb manual with the numbering codes, clearly they are different....
Before going board level with this, you could jumper across the switch in question (coin door) and see if the other switches show up during test when jumpered.
Has this ever worked, or is this a new problem that just started?
Actually Ralph, my manual has the same wire color noted so it appears as though the blue-brown-brown wire is correct. I did find a few splices in the line that were buried. They looked fine but I cut and re-connected them and I still have the same issue.
I jumpered over the switch in question and had no success. I jumpered directly from the strobe pins on the device board to the return pins and all switches register as they should when triggered with the proper pin. So I went back beneath the playfield.
Here is a curious thing I found: If I jumper from the right coin chute return wire (blue-brown-brown) since I know this one makes it back to the board, touching the other lead to any other switch in the same column has no effect. But, if I touch the lead to a switch on another column, say Left Spot Target #1, it triggers the appropriate switch in the column in question-in this case Right Spot Target #1. Man, I hope that made sense.
To answer your question, this has been a problem since I got the unit about 6 months ago. The person I got it from says it wasn't like that when he had it but it did sit unplayed at his house for over 10 years.
Any ideas?
Hey Zen! Thanks for the suggestion. I did try that and I even changed the coin switch with another good working Cherry switch to confirm. No dice.
Can you take a picture of the manual from where it is cut off at the bottom? It should capture the part that says "from light box"... I want to see what those returns look like in your manual. It definitely sounds like it is on the playfield, we just need to find it.
Sounds like you had some creative splices at one point, I still think there is something going on with the playfield wiring, but we can come back to it.
With the machine off, Test continuity from one of the other switches in that column to Pin 7 at connector A1j5 (which I think you have already done previously). Once this passes, test continuity from Pin7 at A1j5 to Leg 3 on U4. Based on your previous testing with jumpers, I am assuming this will pass as well. I am assuming all of the solder joints at the connector here are in good order as well? (usually they are, but maybe the connector is causing enough pressure to break this connection at the board). You can test continuity with one of the switches to leg 3 on U4 with the connector in place and wiggle it, that would verify a solid connection.
Welp, continuity from each switch tests fine to Connector A1J5 Pin 7. Pin 7 on the A1J5 header does not pass continuity to Leg 3 on U4 on the same board. Similarly, continuity from other switches does not pass when connected to Leg 3 on U4. I wiggled the connector a bit and I removed the board to check solder joints. Definitely nothing obvious back there.
Quoted from tjprice222:Welp, continuity from each switch tests fine to Connector A1J5 Pin 7. Pin 7 on the A1J5 header does not pass continuity to Leg 3 on U4 on the same board. Similarly, continuity from other switches does not pass when connected to Leg 3 on U4. I wiggled the connector a bit and I removed the board to check solder joints. Definitely nothing obvious back there.
Hmmm.... I will have to check my R911 manual tonight and look at the schems again. going from memory, all the returns go back to U4.
I was messing around with this again last night and I noticed that continuity fails from the strobe of any of the switches in the column to their respective pin at connector A3J3. Of course, Right Coin Chute continuity is fine. Would this confirm an issue below the playfield or is it still a possible U4 issue?
Have you checked the diode boards under the playfield? Even though there's a diode for the coin door switch on the 1A17 board, the signal for the coin switch gets amplified on the A24 front door interface board, so its slightly different than the rest of the switches in that column. The problem with this theory is that there are two diode boards under there and your problem switches span both boards. Perhaps some creative splices as previously suggested but its another place to look.
You could have a problem with the 4.7k resistor at R21 on the A1 control board. With this resistor I wouldn't expect continuity from the connector to U4 (never mind the LM339 in front of it.) Could also be the SIP3 resistor pack, though usually if a bussed resistor fails it would have likely taken out more than just one column.
viperrwk
Awesome! Thanks Viper. I gave a quick glance at the diode boards but never went any further. Maybe a few are actually bad or at least need some solder re-flowed. I'll also check R21. Thanks again for the suggestions. These Gottliebs are definitely odd.
Following up on this for anyone in the future:
Diode board was the issue. Several diodes were simply testing bad and there were several areas on the board that had traces lifting. I got a new diode board, popped it in and everything is functioning as it should. Thanks so much to Ralph and Viper for the help.
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Sullivan, WI