(Topic ID: 111470)

Gottlieb system 1 - power problems SOLVED

By Renouart

9 years ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Renouart
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

Following up on my problematic Solar Ride that had been working happily for a couple of years, but now I am paying for not having prepped it correctly. There were some general system failures, so I am going through Clay's system 1 guide. I have not done the ground mods, but did replace the C1 cap on the power supply. Maybe I should just replace the power supply completely, but perhaps you can be the judge of how bad a shape the game is in to see what makes the most sense. I am checking the voltages and all came up right except the following:
A2-P1 pin 6,7 - 33v (should be 69vAC)
A2-P2 pin 1,2 - 0.8v (should be 5vDC)
A2-P3 pin 7 - no voltage (should be 4vDC)
A2-P3 pin 8 - no voltage (should be 8vDC)

To see if I could figure out what was up with the 69v, I read the voltage off the small transformer, with ground to lug 8 and pos to the fuse behind the transformer - got 77vAC.

So I am very confused. Is the transformer a problem? Should I just replace the power supply? Thanks for any suggestions of what to do now.

#2 9 years ago

One thing I have found with testing system 1 power supply is that everything must be plugged in to everything else to test output voltages. Unplugged gives wrong or no values.

#3 9 years ago

Thanks, maddog! I reconnected the J2 and J3 connectors and retested the voltages. They are now all correct for those connectors. But I still have the J1 A2-P1 pin 6,7 at 33vAC, and they should be 69vAC. I would think that can't be correct if all the output voltages are right, so not sure what I am doing wrong. I am using the ground on J1, and have not done the ground mods yet. Probably should get to those and then recheck?

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from Renouart:

I am using the ground on J1...

That's wrong. Because it's AC, you want one lead on pin 6 and the other on pin 7. Meter on AC voltage. You're seeing half the voltage now, so it should be about right when you test correctly.

When testing the output of the PS board, leave J2 and J3 connectors off, as Clay recommends. Readings may be a little high, but Clay's guide accounts for this. On the J3 connector, some voltages can be read using the cabinet ground while others need the ground on the connector. If your readings are off, check your ground.

I'm a huge fan of reusing old boards whenever possible. I rebuilt my location Genie PS board twice before I finally gave in and bought a newer (way better designed) board. Don't bother rebuilding yours. Get one of the upgrade boards. My factory CPU and driver boards are rock solid after doing the recommended ground mods. The PS board is by far the weakest link on system ones.

#5 9 years ago

So now I still dont understand. If I measure pins 6&7 that way, I get 72vAC, just like you said and close to the expected 69v. But if I measure pins 1&2 that way I get 24v and pins 4&5 give me 28v, which is double what is expected. Doesn't seem right I should measure 6&7 differently than I measure the others.

#6 9 years ago

Plug in J1 and test your outputs. Leave J2 and J3 disconnected. Watch your ground, as I mentioned above.

I'm assuming this game isn't a reimport. If it is, stop and get a schematic to check the wiring first.

#7 9 years ago

How would I know if it is a reimport?

All the J2 and J3 are right. I needed to use the ground not on the connector for the 4v and 8v on J3. But I am still getting the funky voltages on J1.

#8 9 years ago

If your output voltages are good, don't worry about the input voltages. The CPU and driver boards don't care about the input voltages for the PS board, just the output voltages. Now connect up the CPU board and continue as Clay suggests.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from Renouart:

So now I still dont understand. If I measure pins 6&7 that way, I get 72vAC, just like you said and close to the expected 69v. But if I measure pins 1&2 that way I get 24v and pins 4&5 give me 28v, which is double what is expected. Doesn't seem right I should measure 6&7 differently than I measure the others.

The voltages you measured are fine.

The High voltage (69V) uses a full wave bridge rectifier type circuit (4 diodes) with no ground reference going back to the transformer -- so you must measure AC voltage directly across pins 6 and 7 to get 69V (or 72V in your case).

The 12VAC to supply your low voltage (12VDC to feed 5V regulator) uses a full wave center tap rectifier circuit (2 diodes). This supplies a ground connection back to the transformer which is connected at the half way mark within that transformer winding. For that type of circuit, you measure both pins 1 and pins 2 separately with the black lead on ground. You *could* also measure AC voltage directly across pins 1 and 2 but will end up with a 2x reading --> 24VAC.

The 14VAC to supply power for your -12V supply -- same thing. It also uses a full wave center tap rectifier circuit (2 diodes) with a ground connection back to the transformer. Again, the proper method to measure this one is with respect to ground -- black lead on ground and measure pins 4 and 5 separately. And again, you could also measure the AC voltage directly across pins 4 and 5 and end up with a 2x reading --> 28VAC.

#10 9 years ago

For description of the two types of bridge rectifier circuits used on that board --

Center tap:

Bridge:

#11 9 years ago

Thanks for all the input, and the explanation of the voltages. It pushes my understanding of electronics, but looking to understand more about how the game works. I finished Clay's ground and fusing mods last night, and the Solar Ride is now fully functioning! Maybe also had to do with removing and reattaching the connectors, but I am not complaining.

I do have one more question - I measured the voltage of C17 on the CPU. It should be reading -12vDC, but I am getting +12vDC, using the negative, non-crimped side as ground. Again, am I missing something?

#12 9 years ago

OK -- that is a negative supply... To filter a negative supply they would connect the positive end of the capacitor to ground and the negative end of the cap to your negative supply. For this one, turn your leads around.

#13 9 years ago

Thanks. I figured it must be right since the game was working, but wanted to understand what was going on. Now that the electronics are working, have to start on getting the playfield in order.

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