(Topic ID: 191410)

Gottlieb System 1 - Joker Poker Won't start a game

By newmantjn

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by cfh
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 years ago

Trying to get this Joker Poker up and running. The frustrating thing is that is seemed to be OK a few weeks ago, now it isn't really working on a consistent basis. The main symptoms are that a game won't start and the displays flicker.

So far:
Repinned the connectors
Replaced the interconnect harness (with new)
Rebuilt, tested the power supply - both alone and under load

Ni-Wumph board - the old style - worked OK before.

Couple of Youtube videos to show the symptoms. I'm not 100% sure I did the oscilloscope the right way, I haven't used one for real since about 1985.

Symptoms

Background, more symptoms

Looking for 5V deviations - let me know if I'm doing this wrong

In more test with displays plugged in:

#3 6 years ago

Hi Mike:
Clay offered to let me run my boards on his test fixture. Sounds like that might be the way to go.

Regarding the power supply, you are well within your rights to question the quality of my work. I had to re-work it a few times to get it right, but as I mentioned in my video, all the voltages read out good. The 5, -12 are spot on. The 60 is about 60.5 and the 42 is about a half a volt high as well. The 8 and 4 are running a bit high, like 8.3 or something. If it tests out, could it still be bad?

I posted a few more videos, I got it into test mode, the playfield lights are really odd, which is making me wonder about the driver board.

The Docent connector is actually the second connector I put on there. Initially, I was running one that was running another game fine. I did not repin this connector though. It looks pretty good. But this would mean I installed 2 losers.

In fact, initially, I moved this playfield into a running Count Down with the Ni-wumph. I flipped the dip switches and run it with the Joker Poker Playfield for awhile. Then I moved all the controls out from the Count Down and installed it along with the PF in the JP cabinet. It worked for a bit, then it went south.

I'm beginning to suspect the driver board, based off the odd PF lights that are on now.

#4 6 years ago

Much of the odd display behaviour was correct by opening the slam tilt switches. Evidently, the Niwumph doesn't care about open or closed, but cares about a change of state. My NC switch in the door was dirty. I was under the impression the Ni-wumph didn't care about slam switches at all.

Many thanks to Jim Paulson for cluing me in on this.

A new video is up showing odd behaviour in self test. Lamp test fires coils. Coil test does nothing. Outhole doesn't kick anything out.

#6 6 years ago

So I hauled all my boards out to Clays last night and stuck them on his system one test fixture - a game he mounted on a flat surface. It has all the coils etc.

All the boards tested good. The PS zener CR21 got a bit hot, but it it delivering the voltage it needs to.

I installed everything back in my game. No change.

Summary:
Game doesn't start. Game over relay won't pull in when you start a game. Outhole won't kick out. In lamp test mode, the kings bank fires. In coil test mode, nothing fires. I'm driving myself nuts, so I felt best to hone in on the Q relay and see if I could figure this one thing out. Should be easy, right?

I can't seem to get a decent reading on the coil resistance on the Q relay. It reads open, but I think this is a red herring - or I'm a moron. Or as I shouted earlier today - "The laws of physics don't apply in my garage."

Next, I unplugged the driver board. Then I jumped the Q relay back to the rectifier. It pulled in. Then I verified the colors and continuity on the edge connector for the Q relay. Next, I plugged the driver board back in and grounded the transistor. The Q relay pulled in.

Next, I turned the game on and observed the Q relay. I pulled in immediately. (??) Then, as soon as I pushed the credit button to start a game, it let go!! Out of sheer desperation, I swapped out the diode on the Q relay. It tested OK when I pulled it out, and, of course, nothing changed when I put a new one in.

I had another "known good" driver board, and it was roughly as schizophrenic. I don't remember if the Q relay pulled in right away or not.

This game more or less worked a two weeks ago. I've never been this frustrated with a pinball in my life.

#8 6 years ago

Looks like it was the interconnect harness. At a minimum, it was labeled wrong. This was a brand new harness. I think I may have tangled myself up with what was tested at Clays, perhaps we didn't test this harness because it was "brand new"? Or perhaps we installed it upside down, which given the mislabeling would have been right? I really don't know.

I pulled out a untested harness that I made a couple of summers ago and it seems to be working.

To track this down, I actually set up a second Joker Poker and swapped parts back and forth.

I can't begin to tell you how many hours I have into fixing this thing. Urrgh..

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