(Topic ID: 208331)

Gottlieb System 1 Genie can’t retain high scores

By Pinballflare

6 years ago


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#7 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinballflare:

Yes, I measured pin 22 of z22 with the power off and it checked out. I think the more telling issue though is that the high score is not retained game to game. If you play and get 95000 the game says high score to date is 95000. The very next game without shutting off the machine you score 30000, it now says high score to date is 30000.

It sounds like the CPU cannot either WRITE to the 5101 or is getting all zeroes back when it reads it. It only bothers to do a write when somethings has changed. So, if you finish a game, it has to pull the previous high score (which might be coming back as 000,000), compare it to your score, and then only save it if its larger in value. Then repeat the process at the end of the next game. Drop a coin, it has to update the bookkeeping value stored. In other words, the NVRAM itself is not being used all the time like on other Manufacturer's systems. The Sys 1 CPU uses its internal memory most of the time and then only does a save or retrieve when necessary (I found this out while working on my Split Data bus 5101 NVRAM module. You might get different results if you try to read the bookkeeping values or enter a new free game threshold, and then exit that with the slam switch (which doesn't remove power from the ICs) as opposed to powering down and back up again.

So, you would have to monitor control lines from the spider chip(s) and then see if they are getting through the various gates to end up at the 5101 pins themselves. A bit harder to probe since the inputs and outputs of the Spider chips are at +5V and -12VDC swings.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Any reason for this? Ahh...I see. Technical reason.

On Gottlieb System 1 MPU boards, Gottlieb used the separate Data In and Data Out Pins on the 5101 while others simply tied them together and used them on Bi-directional bus communications like most other memory devices. In those other applications, using the RAMTRON Fram products are fine. But in this case, I had to not only split the bidirectional data lines but also use the SIMTEK style NVRAM due to how the MPU accesses the memory cells.

I laid out a NVRAM version that will work with System 1 MPU boards. Wayne at Pinitech has a few of them available if you contact him directly (he doesn't have them on his website).

For the most part, so many others are just happy with using a Super Cap or Coin battery and keeping the original 5101 memory chip. My games often sit un-powered for extended periods of time so I wanted an alternative solution.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Ok.
I am not trying to hijack this thread, but since we have the same issue I hope the original poster does not mind.
So far I have installed a new 5101 chip. New cap at c24 and checked for steady 5 volts at pin 22 of Z22 as well as pins 7 and 9 of Z2. I also reset memory on settings 1-10.
But the game refuses to remember high scores or hold credits even though 5 volts are perfect across all test points.

But how much voltage do you have going to the 5101 when power is off?

#24 6 years ago

FYI, the Gottlieb Sys 1 compatible NVRAM is not going to fix a board unless the only thing wrong is the 5101 CMOS Ram.

The module uses the same read, write and enable signals as a 5101.

#25 6 years ago

My Joker poker with NO ram or module plugged into the 5101 socket will:

Power up with zero credits
Power up with a HSTD of 000,000
Not hold entered replay levels when entered and then exited by using Slam.
Will go from 0 credits to 1 Credit with coin drop but will not advance past 1 with further coin drops.

So, it appears your board is not enabling the Ram when accessed. If it was enabling, but not writing, you would at least get back the random garbage that most 5101s will power up with when not cleared previously.

2 weeks later
#36 6 years ago

That is CR38 , a 3.5v zenor. You might need to lift one leg and recheck. It should read like a normal diode.

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