(Topic ID: 104822)

Gottlieb System 1- help ... pretty please,with a cherry on top!

By E_N_3

9 years ago


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  • 192 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by jboner1058
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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There are 192 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 9 years ago

pretty sure it is yes, but it wont be the coil it will be the lack of power to it ( test it - it wont be there).

find where the power stops on the way to it .. maybe the fuse under the playfield, maybe in the relay switches.

#152 9 years ago

Glad to hear you found the problem with the Q relay (you could have found it 3 months ago if you'd followed my instructions earlier in the thread )

From the manual here's the coil list for Close Encounters:

Close Encounters Coil List.jpgClose Encounters Coil List.jpg

#153 9 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

pretty sure it is yes, but it wont be the coil it will be the lack of power to it ( test it - it wont be there).
find where the power stops on the way to it .. maybe the fuse under the playfield, maybe in the relay switches.

Ok, so I was able to run a coil test in the game's test. The coil in question fired twice and then stopped working and it then gave the error message again about that coil. Does the fact that it was able to fire twice show/prove anything? Does it indicate it needs to be changed?

#154 9 years ago
Quoted from woz:

Glad to hear you found the problem with the Q relay (you could have found it 3 months ago if you'd followed my instructions earlier in the thread )
From the manual here's the coil list for Close Encounters:

Close Encounters Coil List.jpg 6 KB

Yes, it did take a long time, and I totally wish I did find it earlier. Problem is that I am still new at this, so when you mentioned it, both times I asked you a follow-up, but you never responded, and then I got caught up on another trail. But yes, you called it!

#155 9 years ago
Quoted from woz:

Glad to hear you found the problem with the Q relay (you could have found it 3 months ago if you'd followed my instructions earlier in the thread )
From the manual here's the coil list for Close Encounters:

Close Encounters Coil List.jpg 6 KB

Yes! Awesome! That list verifys what I am seeing hopping in the game. The issue seems to be with the drop target ressest. However, so body else said the issue is not likely with the actual coil? I was hoping I would just have to buy a new coil and call it a day, but I guess that isn't the case? As I mentioned in another posting, I was able to get the game to do a coil test and I was able to make the drop target reset coil fire twice, but then it went unresponsive and it gave the error message. Thoughts?

#156 9 years ago

Check the A3J4-2 connector pin that goes from the Reset Bank coil to the driver. Does the Roto Unit work ok in test (it shares same fuse as the target bank)?

#157 9 years ago
Quoted from woz:

Check the A3J4-2 connector pin that goes from the Reset Bank coil to the driver. Does the Roto Unit work ok in test (it shares same fuse as the target bank)?

Checked A3J4-2 connector pin, looked okay, but I re-pinned just incase.

Did another coil test and coil #8 (drop target reset) does not fire and gets error, however, coil #7 (root target) also does not fire, but does not get an error message. The root target was working when I got the Q coil unlocked and was testing everything, when the coil #8 issue locked everything up, which is where I am now.

#158 9 years ago

Check the fuse under playfield that is inline with both Drop Target and Roto Target coils circled in orange in schematic below.

Close Encounters Coils 2.jpgClose Encounters Coils 2.jpg

#159 9 years ago
Quoted from woz:

Check the fuse under playfield that is inline with both Drop Target and Roto Target coils circled in orange in schematic below.

Close Encounters Coils 2.jpg 56 KB

One step forward and one step back...lol.
Checked the fuse and although it was testing fine in the holder with the DMM, after taking it out, I found it was blown. I blew that same fuse a few more times, but coil 7 and 8 are now working! However, it is still saying to check the coil 8 upon startup of game when the pascal board runs its initial scan of everything.

I am "basically" able to load a game and play until the second to last drop target is hit on the drop target bank. FOr some reason as soon as this ONE target goes down, it sends the game in to an "audit" /"book keeping" mode?

Thoughts?

#160 9 years ago

The bumping it in to audit really has me stumped....any ideas?

#161 9 years ago

put it in switch test and see if it shows any stuck switches. then trigger that switch and see what number comes up

#162 9 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

put it in switch test and see if it shows any stuck switches. then trigger that switch and see what number comes up

Will do

#163 9 years ago

Ok, I put the game in switch test and it immediately fires the drop target coil...is this the games way of saying this coil is bad?

#164 9 years ago

something is wrong in the switch matrix. the question is .. what. Do you own a manual? maybe you will get lucky and its wired wrong... what target is it exactly?

#165 9 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

something is wrong in the switch matrix. the question is .. what. Do you own a manual? maybe you will get lucky and its wired wrong... what target is it exactly?

It appears to be the bottom 2 targets in the drop target bank.

I have the owners manual, but it is zero help...no diagrams, etc, just basic info about the game and such

#166 9 years ago

bottom close to flippers or bottom with playfield up?
ill take a look at the color codes on mine for you

#167 9 years ago

I was just reading through the pascal manual, and it seems that it pays close attention to that coil #8 and shuts other stuff off to avoid other problems. Perhaps this is part of the confusion?
image-384.jpgimage-384.jpg

#168 9 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

bottom close to flippers or bottom with playfield up?
ill take a look at the color codes on mine for you

Bottom -- closeser to flipper/bottom of plafield ...sorry

#169 9 years ago

Ok, narrowing this down even further - it is only the second from the bottom (bottom being closet to flippers) that is the issue.

The issue is that when the switch contact is made for this drop target, it actually performs like the test switch on the coin door! I was able to flick the drop target switch and navigate the test menus just like I was using the test switch on the door...lol

#170 9 years ago

the manual tells us this is switch 60.
did you repin A1J7 ? are pin A1J7-11 and -12 swapped? do you get a credit when you hit the upper bullseye? does the normal test button work as well? its a cool problem you have here.

#171 9 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

the manual tells us this is switch 60.
did you repin A1J7 ? are pin A1J7-11 and -12 swapped? do you get a credit when you hit the upper bullseye? does the normal test button work as well? its a cool problem you have here.

Wow...you are good...I had No idea anything was weird with the upper bullseye target, but I just checked, and it appears when I hit the upper bullseye target, it acts like the start button....is that what you meant by the credit button...and if so, does this mean the wires are swapped?

#172 9 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

the manual tells us this is switch 60.
did you repin A1J7 ? are pin A1J7-11 and -12 swapped? do you get a credit when you hit the upper bullseye? does the normal test button work as well? its a cool problem you have here.

Holy cow...this is a huge step forward! Yes, I did re do this harness, and when i did, I simply used the order that the previous person had them soldered to the bord, but after reading your comments and seeing that the two wires in question were nearly identical yellow wires, I figured I would try swapping them, thinking maybe the previous person accidentally mixed them up when cutting and soldering them to the board.

Well, I'm happy to report that I swapped them and the crazy drop target and bullseye issues are gone!

Now, there seems to be one last issue that now presented itself in my testing after the wire swap. The coil that kicks the ball over to start the game on is reporting as a stuck switch. I checked the switch under the PF and the contact switch is not misaligned, so the problem is elsewhere? Thoguhts on where to start?

You guys rule! I am sure getting an education in Gottlieb system 1...lol...thanks!

#173 9 years ago

Are you saying that the Outhole switch is reported as stuck?

Was this a problem before you swapped wires?

If you unplug A1J7 does the stuck switch error go away (turn power off first!)?

FYI The outhole switch is a direct input to the CPU and separate from the switch matrix.

#174 9 years ago

have you fallen for new player trick? remember it will say its stuck if it has a ball in it.

its A1J7 pins 1 and 8.

#175 9 years ago

The pascal says the switch is stuck and upon inspection, the coil that fires the ball in to the shooter lane is engaged on...the arm that hits the ball is up...it is humming...and gets hot.

I don't believe the issue was present before swapping the wires, but keep in mind that this entire project has been a myriad of problems that has been getting fixed one by one. So it might have just not been presenting itself, or I simply had not seen it yet, as I didn't get the game to the place I have yet to see it occur.

#176 9 years ago

Ok, I don't know if it was my fiddling with the switch or the harness, but the kicker is now fine....go figure.

And now I come come to realize that the under playfield (insert) lights are not working. Everything on top of the PF is fine. The ones by the roto wheel, under the PF are fine, and the one between the flippers, but that is it. I thought it was simply a ton of bad bulbs, but I just looked and I swapped some out, and I inspected them, and they were fine, and the replacement ones didn't light eighter.

So, where should I start with the under PF lights issue? I checked all fuses.

#177 9 years ago

I tested all diodes as well as the bridge rectifier. Where do I point the investitigation towards next?

#178 9 years ago

Evening bump

#179 9 years ago

what have you done so far to work it out ?
have you looked at the illumination schematic in the manual? (page15) there is no magic, the bottom board provides power and the transistors turn the return path off and on.
is there power? have you put the pascal board into lamp test mode? a grotty switch in the T relay might be a problem but if some controlled lights have power it might a3j3 and a3j5

#180 9 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

what have you done so far to work it out ?
have you looked at the illumination schematic in the manual? (page15) there is no magic, the bottom board provides power and the transistors turn the return path off and on.
is there power? have you put the pascal board into lamp test mode? a grotty switch in the T relay might be a problem but if some controlled lights have power it might a3j3 and a3j5

Firstly, thank you, everyone, again, for all the help that has been given on this project!
I can't believe how many things needed attention in this game!

My manual doesn't have anything like this? Are there two different manuals? I ordered the manual from PBR a, but there is no schematics or anythings detailed on the inner workings of the game. I am sorry I'd there is some other version I should have gotten and that would have eliminated some of my questions/helped.

I did put the pascal board on lamp test and the it cycles through without actually lighting the under playfield lamps, although I imagine it was trying to light them.

There are, from what I see, exactly 3 lamps working: the shoot again, and the 2 lamps that light the roto wheel from under the PF.

For the T relay switches, should I clean them with a light filing, or a little bit of alcohol? I know that various switches in the Gottlieb system require being cleaned in different ways, and cleaning the wrong way can really mess things up.

#181 9 years ago

playboard illumination is the name of the schematic. perhaps they didnt scan that page.

clean it with alcohol on a rough ( not gloss) business card or similar piece of light card

look at the pins in J3 and J5 - see if any are broken or green

#182 9 years ago

Here's the page you are missing:

Close Encounters Lamps.jpgClose Encounters Lamps.jpg

#183 9 years ago

Found it! Broken connectors In the harness was the culprit! I redid the molex, put it back in the harness, and the under playfield lights came right on!

#184 9 years ago

awesome.. so it works now?

#185 9 years ago

What does it mean when one of the displays comes up with these lines? It is just the player 2 and if I start a game in player 2, the score works, but those lines mess with some numbers.

image.jpgimage.jpg

#186 9 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

awesome.. so it works now?

Yes

5 months later
#187 8 years ago

Did you find a solution to your Player 2 display issue? I've got something similar on my System 1 Totem that I can't figure out. When I move the display board to a different player position, the problem stays in the same spot - so in my case it's not a problem with the display board. Also, after I go through the self-test my problem goes away.

#188 8 years ago
Quoted from JakeSaintJames:

Did you find a solution to your Player 2 display issue? I've got something similar on my System 1 Totem that I can't figure out. When I move the display board to a different player position, the problem stays in the same spot - so in my case it's not a problem with the display board. Also, after I go through the self-test my problem goes away.

I posted a response to your original thread earlier today.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-system-1-totem-player-3-4-display-problem#post-2587365

#189 8 years ago

Some great information here... THX to all involved.

I might have to dive back into a Charlie's Angels soon..... If anyone is remotely close to Des Moines Iowa.. Shoot me a pm if you want to work on and get a CH up and going.... I am able to bring it to you if needed.... Not looking for free work. Just guidance and knowledge.. Just trying to learn the ropes on this style of Systems.......Baby steps for us....

NT.

1 year later
#190 7 years ago

Not to resurrect an old thread, but I'm having similar issues with the drop target bank in my recently acquired close encounters.

#191 7 years ago
Quoted from jboner1058:

Not to resurrect an old thread, but I'm having similar issues with the drop target bank in my recently acquired close encounters.

Did you try re doing the tips of wires going into the harnesses? That is a typical problem.
Also, in mine, a wire was in the wrong wire position in the harness, but if the game hasn't been fiddled with too much, I imagine that won't be an issue with yours.
I would start with redoing the wire tips and see where you are at from there.

#192 7 years ago

I'll start on that tomorrow. I think there may be a bad transistor or two as well since I have both relays locking on when I power on the game and all kinds of weirdness with my lights and blowing fuses from the locked on drop target solenoid

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