(Topic ID: 216646)

Gottlieb SYS80B switch issues after short.

By woodmedic

5 years ago



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  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by woodmedic
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

I was working on my newly acquired Genesis trying to adjust one of the pop bumper scoring switches. I was in a stupid rush and did it with the machine powered on. I shorted the switch to solenoid power from a near by coil. I hear the pop in the back box and upon inspection found a nice chunk of Z13 missing. Of course now none of the switches on the top half of the playfield are working. I installed a socket and a new 7400 at Z13. I also replaced the 7404 at Z11 which was already socketed. The game boots fine and sounds are working. Top half of the switches are still not registering. Looking at the diagram, other areas that could be bad are Z33, Z15, and U4. I should also note that now the display only shows all zeros while in attract mode. When a game is started the display appears normal. I am going to swap the 6532's around to see if the problem moves with them. Any other advice on things to look for before I start randomly ordering IC's? Thanks for looking!

#2 5 years ago
Quoted from woodmedic:

... I installed a socket and a new 7400 at Z13. I also replaced the 7404 at Z11 which was already socketed. The game boots fine and sounds are working. Top half of the switches are still not registering. Looking at the diagram, other areas that could be bad are Z33, Z15, and U4. I should also note that now the display only shows all zeros while in attract mode. ...

Hi, your analysis is fine.

Indeed, when there was a short circuit between the 24 volts of the coils and the switch of the bumper, it injected high voltage into the matrix of contacts.

On Genesis, the bumpers are the SW71. So there was 24 volts on Strobe 7, and/or , Return 1.
Since Z13 burned, we can assume that it was on Return 1 that there was the short circuit.
This is a case that we often meet on cards that are repaired.

Thus, Z13 burns immediately and sometimes, the 6532 (U4) which is downstream too. But in this case, usually, it is all the port A that toasted, and thus, all the matrix is dead. It is very rare that Z15 (or even Z33 ???) are affective.

Since it is possible to start a game (button REPLAY = SW47), or the test mode (button TEST = SW07), it means that the Return 7 signal works (so Z14 - 7400 is good), and also the strobes (Strobe 0 and Strobe 4) so, we can assume that Z11 - 7404 and Z12 - 7404 are also OK.
You should be able to check, using the test mode, that some DIPs (eg DIP 1) are working. So, this means that your Z15 - 7432 is also OK.

But, as Z13 and (may be) U4 are dead, you notice that the half part of the matrix is out.
And as the half part of DIPs is driven by the same circuit, this mean that some DIPs should be permanently read to "OFF".
When Z13 is burned, this affect S5..S8, S13..S16, S21..S24 and S29..S32.
And indeed, when S23 and S24 are read as "OFF", the high-score is no more displayed in the attract mode.
This explain why you see "0000000" (scores) but no high-score. This is a coherent behaviour.

To resume, the issue is simple : either Z13 is dead and may be U4.

For sure, as you change Z13, it should be U4.
But it's strange because, usually, U4 completly burned (and system don't start), or sometimes partially (but often all port A burned).
Before to replace U4, check your replaced Z13.
Be sure that the new component (7400) is in good condition (if you own an EPROM programmer, they often include a component tester). Maybe the short circuit damaged tracks under Z13. Check that it is well fed.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from woodmedic:

I was working on my newly acquired Genesis trying to adjust one of the pop bumper scoring switches. I was in a stupid rush and did it with the machine powered on. I shorted the switch to solenoid power from a near by coil. I hear the pop in the back box and upon inspection found a nice chunk of Z13 missing. Of course now none of the switches on the top half of the playfield are working. I installed a socket and a new 7400 at Z13. I also replaced the 7404 at Z11 which was already socketed. The game boots fine and sounds are working. Top half of the switches are still not registering. Looking at the diagram, other areas that could be bad are Z33, Z15, and U4. I should also note that now the display only shows all zeros while in attract mode. When a game is started the display appears normal. I am going to swap the 6532's around to see if the problem moves with them. Any other advice on things to look for before I start randomly ordering IC's? Thanks for looking!

test all diodes on those switches too

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from Cycloneman:

test all diodes on those switches too

When diodes are dead, this affect switches but not DIPs. As the high-score is no more displayed, this mean that the DIPs are not correctly read (so seen as "OFF").
Sure the issue is at Z13 or U4 area.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from noflip95:

When diodes are dead, this affect switches but not DIPs. As the high-score is no more displayed, this mean that the DIPs are not correctly read (so seen as "OFF").
Sure the issue is at Z13 or U4 area.

i just said that while he's at it to test them,a short can spike and short out a number of things.i see you already covered majority of the issue i was just throwing that in

#6 5 years ago

Wow thanks for the replies! Last night no one had made any posts so I started probing around with a logic probe. I was checking the outputs of Z13 and comparing to the outputs of Z14 since the circuits look so similar. I found that I had no activity on the Return 1 circuit. I think I may have an upstream diode problem as well as the U4 going off of the premise that the dip switches are not being read correctly but also having no activity on Ret 1. Does this seem plausible? On the switch matrix, I am missing all of the switches in the left 3 columns. I do however have activity on returns 2 and 3. Thanks again for the help! I did order a replacement for U4 but will have to wait for it to arrive.

#7 5 years ago

I am still waiting on the 6532 U1 to come in. In the mean time, I have been doing a little testing on other parts to try and figure out how all of this works. I read about being able to push the credit button to send a pulse in the dip switch test. In doing so I found out that all of the switches that are associated with z13 are always read as off. All of the switches associated with z14 work as expected with the exception of S9. When switch 9 is turned on, the game cycles through the test menus as if you were pushing the test button. Further checking revealed that when the credit button was pressed, I get no pulse on pin 6 of Z15. Pins 4 and 5 are both checking fine but no output on pin 6 so Z15 is bad I think. Would this cause the issues I am having with Switch 9?

#8 5 years ago

Well I’m happy to report that I swapped u4 and z15 and things are mostly back to normal. I was still missing the top rollovers and found an open between the edge connector and z13. Once I repaired that, everything is working again that was working before my little accident.

#9 5 years ago

Nice
Don't forget @woodmedic, as you're the Original Poster of this topic, to mark it as RESOLVED.
Using the icons at the top of the topic :
resolved (resized).pngresolved (resized).png

#10 5 years ago

Got it. Thanks!

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