(Topic ID: 153292)

Gottlieb Solar Ride - Switches shorted? - Fixed!

By Renouart

8 years ago


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Switch_matrix_2_(resized).png
Switch_matrix_(resized).png
Screen_Shot_2016-02-26_at_4.27.53_PM_(resized).png
#1 8 years ago

These starting posts are older, and thanks for everyone's suggestions. New post at #9, with what I am hoping is a more focused question....

I am working on a Solar Ride to learn System 1. I got some great advice on how to clean the corrosion (love fiberglass pens), and a complete repin removed the ghost lights. Also did the ground mods. But now I am getting several switches score additional points, and I cannot figure out the schematics to know where to look. Switch 34, the top drop target scores as if all the targets were hit, 5x 1000pts, and sets up the holes for reset. Hitting any of the remaining standing targets does not score additional points. The outlane switches 10 score 3x 1000pts, and the hole switch 41 also scores 3x 1000 pts. I did not get the switch errors till I worked on the board, so maybe I created the error. Below is the section of the board I replaced - of course the onboard battery is gone.

I have the Gottlieb repair manual and the Solar Ride manual, but I cannot figure out the schematics for where to look. Is this a diode issue? Maybe an IC - I replaced a 7405 at Z28 and 7404 at Z8. Any help to guide me through this is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Screen_Shot_2016-02-26_at_4.27.53_PM_(resized).pngScreen_Shot_2016-02-26_at_4.27.53_PM_(resized).png

#2 8 years ago

Saturday morning please help the schematic illiterate bump!

#3 8 years ago

The first thing to do is take the ball out, reset the targets and go into switch test and see if any are still active. Then test all the switches one at a time and make sure the correct number echoes back in the displays.

#4 8 years ago

Thanks for the suggestions, cody_chunn. The self test works fine. All the other switches activate correctly. The only ones that activate extra scoring are 34, 10 and 41.

#5 8 years ago

I was reading the PinWiki, and now understand the question from cody_chunn. When in switch test, activating switch 10 or 41, only activates those switches. When activate switches 30-33, also only activates those. When I activate 34, it shows the switches 30-34, which are all the drop targets and reflects what I see in the scoring and activation of the reset switch

Also, I checked the underplayfield diodes for the drop target switches and they they seemed fine, though I still replaced the one for switch 34.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

#6 8 years ago

Leap day afternoon desperation bump

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from Renouart:

I was reading the PinWiki, and now understand the question from cody_chunn. When in switch test, activating switch 10 or 41, only activates those switches. When activate switches 30-33, also only activates those. When I activate 34, it shows the switches 30-34, which are all the drop targets and reflects what I see in the scoring and activation of the reset switch
Also, I checked the underplayfield diodes for the drop target switches and they they seemed fine, though I still replaced the one for switch 34.
Thoughts? Suggestions?

It sounds like one side of 34 might be shorted with 30-33. Or the diode on that switch is open in the wrong direction in the switch matrix circuits, which can cause it to "ghost" and act like more than one switch has been pressed. Since you replaced it, you might double check to make sure it isn't actually backwards - I had a similar issue with our Solar Ride and the diode on the test switch. The original diode was actually broken in half, and it took me two tries to get the replacement in the correct direction, as I apparently got it in backwards at least once.

Also, check the connector at A1-J7, specifically the fingers on the MPU itself. Even if you repinned, if those fingers have corroded (and with the battery location, if it leaked, that's one of the connectors that would get hit), it's a good idea to hit them with a pink eraser and then tin them with a very thin layer of solder.

BTW, I also ran across this handy chart (for use with the Pinitech 64 Switch Matrix Tester). It helps to indicate how the switch matrix works; A1-J7 is made of 14 wires, 13 of which form the switch matrix signal lines. http://www.pinitech.com/switch_database.php?name=Gottlieb_Solar_Ride

#8 8 years ago

Thanks for the suggestions. I will double check the diodes and look at the connectors. I am out of town all week, so hopefully will get some time this weekend to look into that and the chart for the switch martrix. One thing that is confusing me is that when I study the schematics, I cannot find a designation for which IC is being referred to. For example, it shows which resistors (r58, etc) but not the Z number for the IC.

2 months later
#9 7 years ago

I have been able to check a few things, and now understand more (but not all) about the schematics, and still have not figured out where the short is. I am hoping someone can help me with some more suggestions on what to check, before I throw in the towel and buy a replacement Pascal CPU. I have a spare playfield I would like to start working on to replace the one in the game (that will bring a whole new set of requests for help), but can't bring myself to start till the game plays right.

As LynninDenver suggests, it seems that Switch 34 is shorted in line some where with the switches 30-33. I now understand that the chips Z8, Z9 and Z28 control the switches. I replaced Z8 and Z28 when I redid the board. Z9 looked fine, so did not touch it. Using the schematics I tested all the connections for continuity between A1J7 and A1J6, and all the ones that are supposed to be connected, like A1J7-2 and A1J6-8, are fine, and no additional connections were found. I would interpret this to mean, based on the schematic, that the output connections are fine, but perhaps the input connections are messed up. I re-examined my board work, and could not find any connections that should not be there.

I do not understand the schematic for the inputs, so it is not clear to me where to look. Below is the switch matrix. Perhaps someone could give some suggestions???
Switch_matrix_(resized).pngSwitch_matrix_(resized).png

One last thing - I replaced the diode for switch 34 again, using 1N4148 to replace the 1N270. Looking at the switch matrix, I can get continuity from the switch to A1J7-17, and for switch 34 from past the diode to A1J7-6, and only that connector. There is no continuity to any of the other connectors. To my understanding, this would confirm that the error is on the board. And there is also the fact that the game played fine before I redid the board.

Here is the switch matrix specific to Solar Ride.
Switch_matrix_2_(resized).pngSwitch_matrix_2_(resized).png

Thank you for reading this and for any and all help!

#10 7 years ago

What it looks like: Connector 17 on A1J7 is "common" to all five drop target switches (basically, one side) in the matrix. Connector 2 is the other side of the first drop target, 3 is for the second, 4 is for the third, 7 is for the fourth, and 6 is for the fifth. Also on 6 is the playfield tilt switch. The tilt switch also ties into the Q "tilt" relay on A6J4-9, and into A1J7-12. The first thing I'd try in this scenario (if it's possible, given the involvement of the Q relay) is to extract pins 6 and 17, and with the rest of the harness connected to the MPU, try "shorting" those two to simulate the drop target dropping and seeing if the "registers all five drop targets" behavior stays or goes.

#11 7 years ago

That is an interesting idea - I will give it a try tonight. Could it be a problem with the tilt relay somehow?

#12 7 years ago

LynnInDenver - thanks for pointing it out that it seemed to be a short. I finally found it - it was extra solder that went through the throughhole when I was soldering in the chip holder for Z8. Pins 11 and 12 were shorted. From the switch matrix I would not have guessed that would have caused sw34 to short all the rest of the drop targets, but there it was. I retinned all the fingers and now it works perfectly. Not sure why it took me this long to find the problem, but now it is all good.

Thanks again for the help.

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from Renouart:

LynnInDenver - thanks for pointing it out that it seemed to be a short. I finally found it - it was extra solder that went through the throughhole when I was soldering in the chip holder for Z8. Pins 11 and 12 were shorted. From the switch matrix I would not have guessed that would have caused sw34 to short all the rest of the drop targets, but there it was. I retinned all the fingers and now it works perfectly. Not sure why it took me this long to find the problem, but now it is all good.
Thanks again for the help.

You're very welcome. Solar Ride has been a nice education for me, and I'm glad to pass some of it on, and that it's helped another example be brought back into full working order.

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