(Topic ID: 290803)

Gottlieb Surfer stuck on ball 1 and a few other issues

By newmdlarmy

3 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by jeffc
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surfer player unit problem (resized).JPG
#1 3 years ago

So I have a Surfer Gottlieb machine that was almost totally dead. It has been sitting for at least 15 years with no cover over the back of the head, so everything in the head was filthy. When plugged in and turned on, it was in tilt mode and would not start. After working on it for the last couple of weeks, it’s almost 100%!
I’ve been waiting to post until I couldn’t fix something and that time has come.
Earlier today the machine would start, reset and then was going through a complete game whether on 1 or 2 players. As the day progressed, it would randomly sometimes not advance to ball 2 on a 1 player game- or to player 2 ball 1 on a two player game. Now it won’t ever go past ball 1 player 1.
Also, when on player 1, I still cannot get the hundreds reel for player 1 to advance the thousands reel when it “turns over” and goes from the ninth position (or any position) over to zero. The ninth position switch is making contact. I’ve traced it back to the player unit.
On player 2 the hundreds reel works fine, but for player 2 it (it being issue number 3 above) happens with the tens reel, which works fine on player 1.
I have the schematics and understand most of it, but conceptually I just am struggling with the documentation of how this happens.
I’ve cleaned the L,M and N relays, and I’m fairly sure this is a player unit issue.
I will be working on this later tonight and tomorrow (Sunday).
Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

#2 3 years ago

It sounds like your player unit is having some trouble either stepping cleanly, or some of the switches in it aren't changing states as they should. If you remove the screw in the upper right corner that holds the player unit in place, it will drop down 90 degrees or so. From that position, you should be able to see all the switches clearly. Take a good light and get in there carefully and clean the contacts. After you've cleaned them, make the unit step around and watch each of the switches to see that it's opening and closing as it should. When they're all opening and closing correctly, look at the back side of the switches and make sure there aren't any tabs or wires touching or disconnected. It's really important to be careful and thorough when doing this.

When you're done with that, screw the player unit back into it's normal upright position and work the plunger with your finger to watch it step around. Does it move quickly to each new position? Are the rivets and snowshoe contacts clean?

I realize this is kind of a holistic way to approach your problem, but if you can do all that carefully, it may fix your problem and help you avoid some future problems in that area. If it doesn't fix things, at least you know the switches and stepping is working as it should, and you can look elsewhere. But it does sound like your player unit could be the problem.

Make sure those player 1 score reel switches are making good contact as well, opening and closing correctly.

#3 3 years ago

The player unit has been unscrewed and cleaned and adjusted. I bet something is misadjusted because otherwise it would work

Does the “advance adjacent score reel” on a two player late 70’s Gottlieb EM go through the player unit? How do I read that on the schematics?

I’ve cleaned and adjusted the switches on the score reels more than once. The runout switches and the zero position and the ninth position all seem to be correct.

#4 3 years ago

Yes, it looks like there's a switch on the player unit P1E that has to be closed for a pulse from the L relay to get through to the score reel.

With the game set for player 1, press the L relay armature with your finger. Does the 1000 pt score reel move? If so, does the 1000 score reel move when you score 100 pts at a time (tap the M relay armature) and go to the next thousand?

Is the thousands chime ringing?

surfer player unit problem (resized).JPGsurfer player unit problem (resized).JPG

#5 3 years ago

The L relay will score 1000 points- and it will move the 10,000 reel as it should when it changes from 9 to zero.

The M relay moves the hundreds but will not move the 1000’s when it goes from 9 to zero.

I will check the P1E switch

#6 3 years ago

Well, if the L relay is moving the 1000 score reel, then the P1E switch is working - the signal is getting through both that switch and the switch on the L relay that is in series with P1E.

There's some disconnect between the 100's score reel and the L relay. There are only 3 switches that fire the L relay when the 100's reel is on 9 and gets a signal to go to zero. You've shown with pressing the L relay manually that the 1000's reel moves, which means that the switch marked "L" in series with P1E on the snippet in post 4 is closing. (I would assume the 1000's chime is working then.) That whole part of the circuit must be working. So it's got to be something in the snippet below, which has to do with the switches on 100's score reel or their wiring.

Just as an overall explanation, the snippet below is how the 1000's reel gets a signal to fire when the 100's reel goes from 9 to 0. You can see the M (100 pt) relay on the right side of the highlighted circuit. When the 100's reel gets to 9, the "9th. pos. 1st. hundreds" switch should close. On the next 100 pt pulse, when the 100's score reel moves, the M switch and "on add 1st. hundreds" switch should both close, completing the electrical connection to the L relay on the far left and energizing it. That should close the L switch on the far right in the snippet on post 4 and complete a circuit through P1E to the 1000's score reel solenoid to advance the reel. Those player unit switches (P1E, P2E, etc.) just route the signal to the proper player's reel...the rest of the circuit is common to all players.
So you showed me that the signal from the L relay is being routed correctly to player 1 - but when the 100's reel goes from 9 to 0, the L relay is not being energized as it should. So it's something in the snippet below.

I apologize, I only have the Surf Champ (4-player) schematic, so that's what I'm posting - yours should be a bit simpler, but similar enough.

Surfer problem (resized).JPGSurfer problem (resized).JPG

#7 3 years ago

Check the NO EOS switch on the lower value reel to get its neighbor to advance during carry over, per Paul’s recent schematic.

#8 3 years ago

Re: stuck on ball 1, does your first ball relay (U) change state when you score your first points?

#9 3 years ago

Thanks for all the info and feedback. When you are deep in a machine sometimes you end up feeling like you’re drowning in 2 inches of water. The circuit is simple to the score reel. It’s either the 9th position switch, a normally open switch on M, or the “on add” score reel switch. I didn’t know what this “on add” was. Found out it’s the switch on the bottom of the score reel. That’s the problem on player one 100s and I’m sure it’s the problem on player two 10s.
The P1E is for something totally different.
As for stuck on ball one...
Per the manual I will check out the sequence that begins with step 9 of the manual which involves the P relay.
And regarding the U relay, it does stay energized once points are scored... I will be back out there again in the next hour or two and will update! Again, thanks everyone for contributing.

#10 3 years ago

Success!
Score reels are all good and a switch on the U relay was not making contact.
Thanks for all the help.

#11 3 years ago

Glad you got it taken care of. Surfer's a great game!

#12 3 years ago

Nice work!

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