(Topic ID: 208696)

Gottlieb Surfer: No power, no lights

By pfried

2 years ago

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#1 2 years ago

Hi everyone. Complete newbie, so I apologize in advance for being dim-witted. I bought a Gottlieb Surfer this past summer, and it seemed to be in great condition, which just a few minor things that weren't working. It worked just fine for about six months, and then all of a sudden, one day I turned on the power switch and nothing happened: no lights, no backlights, no sounds.
It was like this for a couple of days, and then, one day, just as suddenly the power came back on when I pressed the power switch, and the game seemed to work fine (although there might have been some unusual buzzing -- not sure?) And then the next day: no power, no lights again, and the machine has had no power or lights for several weeks now.
Here are the things I've tried/checked: I used a voltage detector to make sure that power was getting to the machine and to see if the power switch was working. When the power switch is in one position, the voltage detector doesn't beep anywhere, and in the other position, it beeps everywhere, so I'm assuming that the power switch is ok. I bought a digital multimeter and I checked all five fuses that I could find, and all the fuses seem to be fine. Any ideas about what to try next? Thanks in advance for your help!

#2 2 years ago

Make sure the fuse holder is solid and all the wires to it are solid.

#3 2 years ago

Do you have a schematic? Check the start sequence; it's likely that a sw. or two needs adjustment.

#4 2 years ago

Also, check the bounce switches in the main cabinet. These are switches that have a round piece of metal at the end of the switch blade. There is one bounce switch that comes after the transformer in the primary power circuit and that switch needs to be in the normally closed (NC) position. You can check if you have power at the transformer with a multi-meter. Check if there is power at the 25 volt and 6 volt side of the transformer...

#5 2 years ago

Thanks for your replies. I checked the fuse holders and the wires to all the fuses, and they all seemed fine. I also tried to find the bounce switches. I didn't see one near the transformer, but did see one near the 1st coin shute adgustment and tried to fiddle with that. Somehow, though, in the act of fiddling around, when I tried the power switch again, the power came on! Then I closed the machine back up, put the back on, and: no power again.... Tried repeating what I'd just done and... no power.
As for the other suggestions: I do have a schematic and did my best to try to figure it out, but I'm afraid I'm really new to this: I can't tell what a start sequence is. If you have suggestions for where to look on how to read a schematic, that would be much appreciated.
Same goes for the transformer: I can tell where it is, but I don't know how to check it with a multimeter: would there be a video or posting that explains that somewhere? thanks for your patience while I try to get up to speed.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from pfried:

If you have suggestions for where to look on how to read a schematic, that would be much appreciated.
Same goes for the transformer: I can tell where it is, but I don't know how to check it with a multimeter: would there be a video or posting that explains that somewhere? thanks for your patience while I try to get up to speed.

Reply sent in PM

#7 2 years ago

I apologize for knowing absolutely nothing when I first posted a couple of days ago. I've been educating myself for a few days and now know slightly more than nothing (which might be dangerous). Anyway: I'm posting a picture of the relevant part of the schematic as well as a couple of shots of the transformer (just in case anyone sees anything off). Just to recap: My Gottlieb Surfer was working just fine for several months, and then all of a sudden: no power, no lights, no nothing. (It came back to life briefly, just once, after a few days, but never again).
Here's what I've done so far: I've checked the fuses (with a dmm), which all seem fine. I've done my best to check everything that runs between the incoming power line and the transformer: the anti-cheat switch seems ok; the bounce switch seems ok. And the on-off switch does seem to work (one of those voltage sticks shows there is at least some power to the machine in one position but not the other). I know that the power coming in is ok, because I plugged a light into the "convenience outlet" next to the transformer, and it worked fine.
I would think the problem is with the transformer, I looked at Clay's "Repairing Electro-Mechanical (EM) Pinball & Coin Operated Games to 1978" and according to him, "Does a transformer ever go bad? Short version - NO. But I hear this all the time from inexperienced EM (and solid state!) repair people - 'the transformer is bad.' In fact, this is rarely the case. In all the EM games I have fixed (I fix about 200-300 per year), never has the transformer been bad."
Being relatively clueless when it comes to electricity, I did try to check the voltage on the 6amp light wire to see if any power was coming out, and when I pressed the on-off switch, the voltage went from 0 to 1. So, I'm guessing that, somehow, there's no power getting to the transformer.
Any ideas? What am I missing?

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#8 2 years ago

Hi pfried
DANGER - You are and You will handle line current --- 110VAC can kill peope - also 24VAC - also 6VAC can kill people. Wear rubber gloves - exercise caution - NEVER touch bare metal - ALWAYS hold a Jumper-Wire at the insulation.

I show Your snippet of schematics again - "marked green" is what You have tested by plugging-in a light into the convenience-outlet.
Lets first stay on the 110VAC side --- the Target-Bank-Reset-Coil and the Sequence-Bank-Reset-Coil both operate on 110VAC. TOGGLE-OFF the pin and unplug the main power-cord - then locate these mentioned Reset-Coils. A short wire of unknown color runs to a fuse --- see the situation "marked red": clip-on a Jumper-Wire at "OTHER SIDE of the fuse" - take the other end of the Jumper-Wire to the main-power-switch and lay the end of the Jumper-Wire near it - lay it on wood. Look on the main power switch for "wire-in-the-pin-of-color-red". Practice a bit - hold the Jumper-Wire at the insulation and tip-on and pull away "at switch side wire-in-the-pin-of-color-red".

After practicing a bit: Plug-in, toggle-on --- then (caution) hold the Jumper-Wire at the insulation and tip-on and pull away "at switch side wire-in-the-pin-of-color-red" --- question: Does the Reset-Coil fire ? Depending on Your answer we will proceed to "24VAC-wirings" or we stay on "110VAC-wirings".

I very much like the Test-Light SteveFury made - see https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics#post-2634425 --- two car-bulbs of 12Volts put one behind the other - this sums-up to an 24VAC-Test-Light. (((I say everybody with an Williams and/or Gottlieb-pin should have such an Test-Light - make You one))) Greetings Rolf

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#9 2 years ago

Wow. Thanks so much for this, Rolf. Give me a couple of days to track down all the materials, and I'll check back in and let you know what I've found. Thanks again!!

#10 2 years ago

Also, you can start troubleshooting from the transformer. Check to see if there is power at the 110/120 volt side of the transformer - red wire and white wire. If there is no power at the 25 volt side and 6 volt side of the transformer, then there would be a problem between the 5 amp slo-blo fuse block - black wire - and the 110/120 volt side of the transformer. Check to make sure the power switch mounting nut is tight on the underside of the cabinet... It would be VERY unusual if the transformer was found to be bad...

#11 2 years ago

I just got everything set up to do Rolf's test, clipping one side of the jumper wire on the orange wire by the 1 amp fuse (as on the above color-coded schematic he posted), and then I very carefully put the other end of the jumper wire against the red wire on the on/off switch and... I instantly heard an extremely loud buzzing from the bank reset (I'm not completely sure which one...). Anyway, I'm guessing this is what we were looking for, and I suppose this means that now we move on to the 24v wirings-- is that right? I've got all the material to make one of Steve Fury's test lights, so I can put that together if needed.

#12 2 years ago

Hi pfried
sorry - in the JPG in post-8 I did not write "tip-on and pull away". In an functioning pin the feature "reset" is done by the Score-Motor turning and so closing Score-Motor-Switch-4B for just about a tenth or a fifth of a second. I sould have written: "Imitate the short period of time - tip-on and pull-off."

When You do "tip-on and pull away": Does this sound like an "bank resetting" ?

Clipping on permanent the Test-Light: Toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons). Locate the R-Relay*** or the S-Relay*** - look at the coil on the relay - on one side there are two wires of color-black soldered-on (actually it is one wire of color-black hopping to an relay - hopping to next relay - hopping ... etc.). Clip-on the Test-Light at this solder-lug on the coil - on side "wire(s)-black soldered-on" - take the other end of the Test-Light to the 24VAC-15-Amp-Fuse and lay the end of "Test-Light-Wire / gator clip" onto wood - side of fuse having soldered-on wire-color-red-green.

Then plug-in, toggle-on --- exercise care - hold the insulation of the wire / gator-clip and tip-on and pull-away "at fuse-side-wire-red-green". Question: Does the Test-Light lights up ?

R-Relay*** or the S-Relay***: The R-Relay or the S-Relay or another relay with these two wires-color-black is good to use --- I would use the R-Relay or the S-Relay because (probably soon) we will look at these relays as these relays must function when starting a new game.

(((I hope / guess when You make / wire Your Test-Light: The wiring is so current must flow through the first bulb - then flows through the second bulb - wired 'in series'))) Greetings Rolf

P.S.: If You have "just a little doubt": FIRST write about "doubt" - we clarify.

#13 2 years ago

It possibly sounds like the bank resetting -- much louder than I would have thought, although that's possibly because the playfield is up in the air and my ear is closer to it than it would normally be when the playfield is down and the glass is on etc.
I will try to rig up the Steve Fury test light in the next couple of hours, and will try to do the other test soon. I know you're in Switzerland, so I'm not sure I'll be able to do it before you go to sleep.....

#14 2 years ago

I did my best to make Steve Fury's test light: connecting the two 12v bulbs together at the base, and running a jumper lead from each soldered end. When I followed your instructions, and connected one side to the lug with the black wire to the s relay and the other to the side of the 15 amp fuse with the red/green wire, the lights did NOT go on. I did the same thing for the r relay and the lights did NOT go on.
It's entirely possible that I messed up making the test light correctly. But if I did make it correctly, what does it tell us if neither the s or the r relay lit the test light?

#15 2 years ago

Hi pfried
You can test the functionality of Your "Home-made Test-Light" - use it on Your car. On the car we forget about fuses - simply connect one side of Your Test-Light to "PLUS-Pole on Your car-battery" and tip-on the other side of Your Test-Light onto "MINUS-Pole on Your car-battery". (I never did it but I say: Your Test-Light should give a dim light. Please: Try and write about.

We (most likely) have to work longer in time on the 110VAC-side. See the JPG - the "my brown line and text 'not yet tested' ": Toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord. Visually follow the wire-in-the-pin-color-red from "main power switch" to "Solder-Lug on transformer". When You are 100% sure "I (means You) can visually follow from "main power switch" to "Solder-Lug on transformer": You can establish an permanent Jumper-Wire-connection --- the Jumper-Wire will guarantee connection - as You may have the original wire (in the pin) broken inside the insulation. You have set the permanent jumper - You plug-in, toggle-on - THEN do the "test with the Test-Light" again --- does the Test-Light lights up ?
IF "NO , Test-Light does not light up": Toggle-off, unplug the main power-cord. See my "grey drawing in the JPG" - Visually follow wire-in-the-pin-color-white from "transformer-lug" to "Coil You have used for testing 'does the Reset-Coil fire' " --- When You are 100% sure "I (means You) can visually follow from transformer-lug to Reset-Coil-side-wire-white is soldered-on": You can establish an permanent Jumper-Wire-connection --- the Jumper-Wire will guarantee connection - as You may have the original wire (in the pin) broken inside the insulation. By now You have set the TWO permanent jumpers - You plug-in, toggle-on - THEN do the "test with the Test-Light" again --- does the Test-Light lights up ?

If still "No luck": We are in serious trouble.

I feel uncomfortable - doing "long distance diagnosing - testing 'LINE CURRENT' " --- please wear rubber gloves - may ask a friend to be ready to immediately toggle-off the pin.

Here in Switzerland it is 25 minutes before midnight - I go to sleep, till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

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#16 2 years ago

Hi Rolf. Well, I'm not as clueless as I might have thought: the test lights worked on the car battery! So, I'm about to test them again on the pin, but I wanted to clarify to make sure I understood what you mean: after I connect the jumper wire from the on/off switch directly to the transformer, you said to "do the test with the test-light again." I just want to be sure I understand: did you mean to repeat the test with the test light going from the r and/or s relay to the red/green wire on the 15 amp fuse?
Thanks! Paul

#17 2 years ago

Sorry: one other question. I'm finding it nearly impossible to follow the red wire visually from the on/off switch to the transformer, as it is braided in a bundle with so many other wires. Can I simply assume that the red wire from the on/off switch is the same as the red wire on the bottom right of the picture attached?

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#18 2 years ago

Hi pfried
We look at the picture in post-17 - text "this one" --- wire of color-red. You say "on the main power switch on one side of the switch is soldered-on wire of identical-color-red": Yes - You then can proceed.

Side note: IF (if, if) Your wall-outlet (110VAC) is secured by an fuse of 5 or 7 or 10 (or maybe 15) Ampere --- and IF You exercise care - You keep hands off - You only hold on the insulation of an Jumper-Wire: Worst case: The fuse securing the wall-outlet may blow.

Shall I write or shall I not write --- do I confuse You or do I not ? Well, I do write - see the JPG here - I want to check "my brown connecting wire showed in the left bottom corner in the JPG" --- You may want to test this way: Shown here in the JPG - the point to tip-on Your Jumper-Wire hooked-on at "fuse for Bank-Reset-Coil": The point to tip-on is "AT THE TRANSFORMER" --- I expect the Bank-Reset-Coil fires and so proves "my brown connecting wire" is good. If the Bank-Reset-Coil does not fire: "My brown connecting wire" is no good. Worst case: A fuse may blow. (((As You guarantee to hold the Jumper-Wire on its insulation))) Greetings Rolf

P.S. - IF You do "testing as mentioned in post-15": Yes I did mean to repeat the test with the Test-Light on the 24VAC side. (A goal of us is "we want to have 110VAC feeded to the primary side of the transformer" --- another goal is "we want to grab 24VAC on the secondary side of the transformer".)

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#19 2 years ago

Hi Rolf. I performed the first part of your test. I jumpered the red wire on the on/off switch to the red wire terminal (marked "this one "on the picture), then I plugged in and turned the power on: nothing blew. Then I connected the test light (already connected to the s-relay) to the other end of the 15 amp fuse at the red/green wire and: no light.
I'm ready to perform the second part of your test, but I had two questions:
1) I want to make sure I have the right white wire on both ends. In the first image, would that be the correct wire by the reset coil? (I can't really follow the wire through the braided bundle). And in the second image of the transformer, I'm assuming you're talking about Wire marked "A" and not Wire marked "B" Is that correct?
2) Also: Did you want me to keep the jumper connected between the red wire at the transformer and the red wire at the on/off switch while I jumpered the two ends of the white wire and performed the light test?
Thanks! Paul

white wire.pdf

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#20 2 years ago

Hi Paul
thanks - You did AAA "I performed the first part of your test. I jumpered the red wire on the on/off switch to the red wire terminal (marked "this one "on the picture), then I plugged in and turned the power on: nothing blew." You also did BBB "Then I connected the test light (already connected to the s-relay) to the other end of the 15 amp fuse at the red/green wire and: no light."
Sad for us: "no light".
Look at the JPG here --- doing AAA You made an guaranteed connection "main power switch to transformer". See "my green wirings" --- see the "only not yet tested wiring" is the connecting wire "transformer to 'Bank-Reset-Coil-side-wire-white' ". Have the AAA-Jumper-wire permanent clipped-on - take another Jumper-Wire using it as "my orange drawing" shows - with this You make "guaranteed connection" on the last part of wiring on the 110VAC side. First do the "tip-on" - if no fuse blows: CLIP-on. Then do the 24VAC-Test-Light-Test again.

Your question in post-19 - 1) - first part: The Reset-Coil has two solder-lugs --- the "solder-lug connecting to the fuse" You have used earlyer - the other solder-lug has soldered-on "wire-of-color-in-thepin-white-as-well-wire-in-the-schematics-shown-white": I clue: YES.
Your question in post-19 - 1) - second part: Wire marked "A".
Your question in post-19 - 2): Yes I want You to keep the jumper connected. (((We use Jumper-Wires to guarantee "connection" when we see in the schematics a connection "not having switches" --- the wire in the pin may have an breakage inside the insulation - we can not see - we set a permanet jumper to guarantee connection))) Greetings Rolf

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#21 2 years ago

Rolf! I may have an important clue! I left the red to red jumper connected, as you instructed. I attached one side of a different jumper to the lug on the transformer. And I put the other end on wood, in preparation for touching it to the reset-coil. Then I plugged it in, and as soon as I pressed the on/off switch (and before I had a chance to touch the wire to reset-coil): everything lit up and starting working and the score motor turned!!!!
I switched the machine off, and removed the clamp on the transformer and tried to power on again, but this time I saw just a spark at the transformer lug, but nothing turned on.
So, I'm wondering: between those two white wires and the black wire on that lug, is there some sort of loose connection? (you can see it on the image I posted earlier, to the left of where I wrote "this one.")

#22 2 years ago

Hi Paul
when in a pin a relay or other stuff should actuate - but it does not actuate: Somewhere is a "complete breakage" or an "partially to almost complete breakage" so when You (accidentally / by chance) move stuff at this place - You can make "connection" - the big question by now is: Can You reproduce the "partial success" ? Greetings Rolf

#23 2 years ago

Yes, I just recreated it by clipping onto the wires at the white wire lug on the transformer! All the backlights come on and score motor turns, but the strange thing is that the score motor keeps turning without stopping.....

#24 2 years ago

Hi Paul
great - You can reproduce the "partial success" - so reproduce it - You get the 6VAC (lights light up) and You get 24VAC --- the motor runs and runs and runs. The motor endlessly running is an fault - but it is a fault I much more like than an dubious, dangerous fault on 110VAC. See here the JPG - the symbol of the motor is on the left --- towards right are all switches that make the motor to run --- "outmost-right, the 'Motor-1-C' is an switch on the motor" --- all other switches are on a relay. Look in the schematics - list of relays - look in the pin - DOES*** one or more of these relays PULL*** while the motor is (faulty) running ?

DOES*** PULL***: It would be nice when You find the "faulty pulling" relay --- frustrating for us - it can happen and does sometimes happen: Relay(s) are not pulling - just an switch on one of these relays happens to be misadjusted - making connection - connection when relay is not pulling - but faulty connection to make the motor to run ...
BUT the first thing to look for - easy to see: DOES a relay of this list of relays faulty PULL ? Greetings Rolf

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#25 2 years ago

Hi Rolf,
So, I looked to see if one of the relays was pulling, and sure enough the AX relay was pulling. I looked online, and saw a video about how to readjust the AX relay. This may have worked, as the score motor stopped turning endlessly. But now there's just a hum. The backlight is lit, but pressing the credit button doesn't seem to start a new game. It just hums without doing anything.
My best guess about what happened is this: The original problem was the faulty connection between the two white and one black wires on the transformer lug (which is now temporarily fixes by the alligator clip, but I'll have to solder it eventually). I suspect I must have upset the AX relay when I was poking around looking for loose wires. I've stopped the score motor from turning endlessly, but I'm not entirely sure I've fixed the AX relay as it should be fixed. And why the game won't start up and just hums now -- I don't know.....

#26 2 years ago

Hi Paul
I do not see "pins in Your collection" - You only wrote in post-1 about buying this one pin --- Yes, some pins do hum a bit or maybe a bit more - usually on the inside of the coin-door - the so-called "Coin Lockout Coil" often hums (((I would like this goodie be called "Stop Coin-Lockout Coil" as this is how it functions))) - please write about "humming".

Toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - Locate the R-Hold-Relay (most likely down in the cabinet) - locate the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay (...) - locate the S-Start-Relay (...) --- practice a bit - may wear rubber gloves - never touch solder-lugs --- practice: Press the armature on each of these relays and let go - do this several times on each relay --- as You have toggled-off the pin: By now, of course "when You let go on the armature: armature goes back / returns".

Then plug-in, toggle-on - NOW (exercise care): Press the armature on the R-Hold-Relay and let go - question: Does the R-Relay stays pulling ?
Then press the armature on the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay and let go - question: Does the H-Relay stays pulling ?
Then press the armature on the S-Start-Relay and let go - question: What happens ? does the pin starts a new game - resetting the Score-Drums ?

"Press and let go on an armature" is: We simulate "Coil gets power - and pulls". Greetings Rolf

#27 2 years ago

Hi Paul
I stumbled over https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gtb-power-cord-hot-to-transformer-neutral-to-fuse-or-vice-versa#post-4210375 - an nice picture of the area Transformer and wire-white and returning line on the main power cord. Compare with "Your picture in Your post-19 (here)". Greetings Rolf

#28 2 years ago

Hi Rolf. Thanks for that transformer picture; that's very helpful!
On the relays: When I went to turn the machine on, the "game over" relay was vibrating loudly. Pushing the R, H, and S relay seemed to calm the "game over" relay briefly. But other than that, not much else happened. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "does it stay pulling?"Do you mean, does it stay stuck in that position?Pushing the H relay lit all the lights on the playfield. And even after pushing the R, H, and S ,the "game over" relay still vibrates sometimes...

#29 2 years ago

Hi Paul
I prefer the words "a relay stays pulling" (((as the Self-Hold-Circuitry is functioning))) --- to me "stick" is rather "at some time another switch in the Self-Hold-Circuitry on this relay opens so the relay should 'let go' --- but it faulty does not let go - it faulty sticks.

When we press the armature on a relay: We imitate "coil gets Initial-Current - coil pulls - moves armature and moves the switches - one of the moved switches is the Self-Hold-Switch - it closes -Self-Hold-Current can flow - coil pulls and pulls and pulls ... the relay stays pulling.

Good - the H-Relay stays pulling when You manually activate it --- how about the R-Relay ?

I am not happy with the solution Gottlieb made on the late EM-Pins like "Surfer" - for long periods of time the Q-Game-Over-Relay (is entitled to) stay(s) pulling.
We toggle-on the pin and the Q-Relay MUST pull-in and stay pulling. When we start a new game (You manually press the armature of S-Start-Relay: Stuff should happen --- what is Your "not much else" ? See the JPG in post-24 --- a switch on the S-Relay closing (as You press the armature): Switch closing makes the motor to run --- what is Your motor doing ?

Grumble - I forgot about the U-First-Ball-Relay --- the pin is toggled-off so the U-Relay (of course) is not pulling --- You then toggle-on the pin: U-Relay AND Q-Relay MUST pull-in and stay pulling --- in Your pin ?

Do the following and write about the reactions: You toggle-on the pin --- U-Relay and Q-Relay must pull-in and stay pulling - if they do not: Help with manually pressing the armatures - do they now stay pulling ? Then manually activate the R-Relay and the H-Relay - do they stay pulling ? If they do not: Help manually ... Then manually activate the S-Relay - it should pull-in and make the motor to run - S-Relay shall stay pulling for a while - AX-Relay should actuate. Greetings Rolf

#30 2 years ago

Hi. Thanks for that. Ok, I'm getting better at this. Here's what's happening: When I toggle on, the Q and the U stay pulling. If I press the R is seems to stick. If I press the H, the playfield lights up. And when I press the S, the score motor turns, the reset bank does stuff, and then the score motor keeps turning. I'm wondering if the problem might be in the R relay, as it doesn't seem to work as smoothly as some of the other ones?

#31 2 years ago

Hi Paul
at the arcade-rooms times operators wanted to "punish" players beeing rude to the pins - Gottlieb made the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay --- a player shakes the pin (too much) - he is punished with an minor tilt - he looses "Ball in play" (((the T-Tilt-Relay pulls-in and so opens the Self-Hold-Switch on H-Relay so the "beeing steady pulling H-Relay looses current and let go))).
And when a player bangs the pin heavy: An weighted switch (Anti-Cheat-Switch / Slam-Tilt-Switch) opens - cuts Self-Hold-Circuitry on R-Relay - R-Relay let go and so closes a switch --- result is: Q-Game-Over-Relay pulls in --- THIS player get punished by loosing all the remaining balls of the play - he gets "Game-Over".

Once the R-Relay is activated: It must stay pulling, pulling, pulling - forever.
When the Motor runs and the S-Relay is pulling: DOES the AX-Relay actuate ? Greetings Rolf

#32 2 years ago

I'm thinking the problem is the ax relay. I pulled it out and looked at it, and when I manually press the little lever it doesn't move at all. So, I think I'll need to figure out how to readjust the ax relay. I must have accidentally got it misaligned when I was poking around. Would that explain why the score motor keeps running, the tilt and game over signs remain lit, and the game reset button doesn't work?

#33 2 years ago

pfried Hey check out nicovolta 's post on bias'ing the switches on AX relays. His pinball traveling roadshow is a great resource and very entertaining ( be prepared to read alot!) https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nics-american-pinball-tour-aka-im-coming-to-fix-your-games.

#34 2 years ago

Thanks for the tip, willbeEM. Boy, I'm not sure I'm up to disassembling the switch and reassembling it again. I'm guessing I'd do more harm than good.....

#35 2 years ago

Hi Paul
this is a good site http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/ then http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair
this is a good site http://www.pinrepair.com/ then http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm and here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#axrelayvideo is a very helpful video about the AX-Relay. Time 1:27 to 1:42 Clay (?) manually activates and de-activates the AX-Relay (back and forth) --- at time 2:23 to 2:47 he starts a game. Later on in the video he shows how to adjust the AX-Relay. See (time 2:23 to 2:47) how the AX-Relay (AX-Coil pulls-in) moves at starting --- after a while when the resetting of Score-Drums and other stuff has been done: AX-Relay (AXR-, AX-RESET Coil pulls-in) moves back, resets.
Paul - in an former post You wrote +/- "cannot manually move the Ax-Relay back and forth". To proceed in troubleshooting Your pin for starting a new game: We NEED the following: You manually move it - the armature stays in this position --- You manually move other direction - the armature stays in "this other, moved back" position --- just like Clay is showing it )1:27 to 1:42) in the video. Of course I hope that when we let current flow to the coils: Relay actuates "on its own" - we can accept for a whilethe: AX-Relay stays stable in a position when manually moved. Please write about the AX-Relay.

In my PDF I show the Gottlieb-Player-Unit - it actually is "Players-and-Balls stepping Unit" - You stand behind the backbox and look towards the player - during start-up and during play the bakelite disk is (at times) stepped clockwise. Look in the PDF and in Your pin "along the axis towards the player" - the last cam is black and has ONLY ONE tooth. When You move the plunger on the player-unit and let go: You do a step on the unit --- and another one - and another one --- You do 30 to 32 steps and You have made an revolution of the bakelite disk. Do step on the unit - step and step - watch the black cam --- in one position the "one and only tooth on the black cam": LIFTS the switchblades --- THIS is the so-called Home-Position also called Zero-Position also is the position for "pin is ready so Player-1 can play Ball-1". When You have reached this Home-Position: Do about ten steps more and the Player-Unit is in a position "OK, good, helpful for to start a new game". There is more to the PDF - please write about "can step the Player-Unit - can reach Home-Position". Greetings Rolf


#36 2 years ago

Thanks for your help, Rolf . I've got to go on a business trip, but I'll try to pick up where we left off early next week. I'm thinking that if I spend a little time trying to fix the AX relay, I might be well on my way to fixing the machine. Thanks again!

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