Gottlieb Surf Champ startup UPDATED

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#1 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

When I turn it on but don't start a game, immediately Game Over Relay (Q) and 1st Ball Relay (U) lock on, I'm not sure if that is normal? Nothing else is running except for the lights.

When I hit the start button, I hear the Player unit fire up in the back, but it doesn't even attempt to reset the scores (coils not firing). It will cycle through all 4 players and then the player unit will stop running. The motor still continues to run nonstop.

The Q and U relays start to get very hot and get increasingly louder.

I have checked all of the Score unit switches and they all appear to be fine now after a few adjustments.

Post last edited 7 years ago.

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#2 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,380 84 122 1

As far as I can remember, the players don't reset one at a time, that's just the player unit stepping back to the start.

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#3 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from zacaj:
As far as I can remember, the players don't reset one at a time, that's just the player unit stepping back to the start.

Yes, that's the better way of explaining it. It is cycling through the Player unit and not resetting any of the scores.

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1

#4 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

If the score units are not at zero, and the player unit stops stepping but the score motor keeps running, that sounds to me like the game is stopping at the point where the scores are supposed to reset, but they aren't. If the player unit really were getting all the way back to the start, you'd be sitting at player 1, ball 1, the ball would be in the shooter lane, and the score motor would not be running.

When the player unit stops and the score motor is still running, try manually stepping the player unit twice. If it then completes the game reset on its own, you will know the machine is getting stuck at the score reset. (Note: the score units will not go back to zero when you do this test.)

If the machine is getting stuck at the score reset there are a few things that could be wrong, but the most common problems are dirty contacts on the switch stacks of the score units themselves, and/or dirty contacts on the Z1 and Z2 relays.

- TimMe

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#5 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from TimMe:
If the score units are not at zero, and the player unit stops stepping but the score motor keeps running, that sounds to me like the game is stopping at the point where the scores are supposed to reset, but they aren't. If the player unit really were getting all the way back to the start, you'd be sitting at player 1, ball 1, the ball would be in the shooter lane, and the score motor would not be running.
When the player unit stops and the score motor is still running, try manually stepping the player unit twice. If it then completes the game reset on its own, you will know the machine is getting stuck at the score reset. (Note: the score units will not go back to zero when you do this test.)
If the machine is getting stuck at the score reset there are a few things that could be wrong, but the most common problems are dirty contacts on the switch stacks of the score units themselves, and/or dirty contacts on the Z1 and Z2 relays.
- TimMe

Excellent information, thanks. I'll give it a look tomorrow.

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#6 7 years ago

RM

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi futurepinhead, TimMe +
I happen to have an Surf Champ, schematics and manual. I would like to assist in trouble-shooting. Great, "daina" has the Start-up Sequence: http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0456.html . I am irritated by futurepinhead-s (post-1): "The Q and U relays start to get very hot and get increasingly louder". "daina" writes in the second sentence of "4.": "Q and U relays de-energize when AX relay operates". So my questions are:

Does the AX-Relay pull-in ? Are ALL switches in the AX-Relay adjusted "good / right" ? (((Strange behaviour may occur when not adjusted right)))
Do "Q and U relays" quit pulling ?
When You hit the Start-Button and the S-Relay pulls-in: Does the R-Hold-Relay pull-in and stay pulling ?
(AX-Relay pulling-in should initiate) Does the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay pull-in and stay pulling ?
When the Player-Unit stops the stepping (probably has reached position-20): Does "Z1-first-and-second-player-reset-relay" pull-in ? And stay pulling ? (((The pulling Z1-Relay stops the stepping of the player-Unit)))
Greetings Rolf

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#7 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:
Hi futurepinhead, TimMe +
I happen to have an Surf Champ, schematics and manual. I would like to assist in trouble-shooting. Great, "daina" has the Start-up Sequence: http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0456.html . I am irritated by futurepinhead-s (post-1): "The Q and U relays start to get very hot and get increasingly louder". "daina" writes in the second sentence of "4.": "Q and U relays de-energize when AX relay operates". So my questions are:
Does the AX-Relay pull-in ? Are ALL switches in the AX-Relay adjusted "good / right" ? (((Strange behaviour may occur when not adjusted right)))
Do "Q and U relays" quit pulling ?
When You hit the Start-Button and the S-Relay pulls-in: Does the R-Hold-Relay pull-in and stay pulling ?
(AX-Relay pulling-in should initiate) Does the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay pull-in and stay pulling ?
When the Player-Unit stops the stepping (probably has reached position-20): Does "Z1-first-and-second-player-reset-relay" pull-in ? And stay pulling ? (((The pulling Z1-Relay stops the stepping of the player-Unit)))
Greetings Rolf

Also, great things to look for. Thanks Rolf. I'll update later this afternoon.

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#8 7 years ago

RWK

bobnatlanta

Pinside member

Atlanta, GA

19y 65,150 623 3 9

I'd look at the switches on the player unit closest to the backglass first. Make sure they are clean and properly adjusted. That's the 'easy' fix on this problem. Next make sure your score reel switches are properly adjusted. If that doesn't solve it, next most likely cause is the Ax relay. I'd highly recommend getting one of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/fluorescent-magnifying-lamp-60643.html
before you try to adjust this relay. It makes the incredibly small range of movement and proper gap much easier to see. And, you MUST remove the pan from the cabinet to do this properly. You have almost no chance of getting the Ax right while leaning into the cabinet.

All of the above is based on experience and a lot of sound advice from fellow pinsiders. Good luck! Surf Champ is a terrific game!

Post last edited 7 years ago: “corrected typo”

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#9 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Can the coin stepper be any problems. I see the switches look pretty forced there, and two of the wires are tied together, assuming that is a Free Play hack.

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#10 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from TimMe:
When the player unit stops and the score motor is still running, try manually stepping the player unit twice. If it then completes the game reset on its own, you will know the machine is getting stuck at the score reset. (Note: the score units will not go back to zero when you do this test.)
If the machine is getting stuck at the score reset there are a few things that could be wrong, but the most common problems are dirty contacts on the switch stacks of the score units themselves, and/or dirty contacts on the Z1 and Z2 relays.

I stepped the Player Unit and it will cycle through, but it will not cause any of the scores to reset.

I found the Z1 and Z2 and when I do this, the score units will all stop at zero every time. I cleaned the contacts but that does not help. It doesn't appear these are firing at all with the start button being pressed.

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#11 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

OK, when the player unit stops during reset but the score motor is still running, is either the Z1 relay or the Z2 relay energized?

- TimMe

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#12 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from TimMe:
OK, when the player unit stops during reset but the score motor is still running, is either the Z1 relay or the Z2 relay energized?
- TimMe

At this point, neither are energized. In fact, those two relays never activate unless I manually press them. (I forgot to mention this earlier)

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#13 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

From the link Rolf sent me I grabbed this...

1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. 'S' relay starts the motor running.
4. 'AX' relay actuates and the 'coin' unit resets through switches on 'U' and 'S' relays and a switch on motor 1D. 'Q' and 'U' relays de-energize when 'AX' relay operates.
5. When 'AX' relay actuates, the reset relays 'Z1' and 'Z2' are energized in sequence by rivets on the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay.
5a. Motor 1A steps the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay and 'P5B', to the 20th position energizing 'Z1'.

So my problem should be in between S and Z1

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#14 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

As others have already suggested, the switches on the AX relay can go out of adjustment and cause reset problems. Have you cleaned and adjusted the switches on this relay? Be sure the switch stack screws are down tight before you adjust the gap on the switch blades.

- TimMe

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#15 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from TimMe:
As others have already suggested, the switches on the AX relay can go out of adjustment and cause reset problems. Have you cleaned and adjusted the switches on this relay? Be sure the switch stack screws are down tight before you adjust the gap on the switch blades.
- TimMe

Not yet. Waiting for help this weekend to pull the whole unit (pan I believe it was called earlier?)
Hopefully I can get it going this weekend or at least more narrowed down. I will update soon, thanks everyone.

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#16 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Just an update here. I am ordering a contact burnisher tonight so I can properly clean the contacts when I pull the bottom out of the cab. I'm going to go ahead and adjust and clean them all while it is out.

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#17 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Okay, I had a chance to look at my AX relay. I cleaned it all up and adjusted it. The motor stops when it should now! The 100 chime was getting locked on, and luckily I instantly found the problem as a rollover switch being stuck closed. Now, when I fire up a game, it goes into reset, the score reels still do not even attempt to reset, but I can play a game just fine. The scores act like they should during gameplay, just not resetting at all.
Also the 10 chime does nothing, I haven't even started looking for that issue yet. All the wires look fine so I assume it's the switch on on the 10 relay.

Any ideas on the score resetting?

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#18 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Ok, got the chime working. It was as I suspected, the switch was off on the relay.

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#19 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

4. 'AX' relay actuates and the 'coin' unit resets through switches on 'U' and 'S' relays and a switch on motor 1D. 'Q' and 'U' relays de-energize when 'AX' relay operates.
5. When 'AX' relay actuates, the reset relays 'Z1' and 'Z2' are energized in sequence by rivets on the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay.
5a. Motor 1A steps the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay and 'P5B', to the 20th position energizing 'Z1'.
5b. When 'Z1' is energized the 1st and 2nd player score units reset to zero through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A and 'Z1'. When all score units of the 1st and 2nd player are at zero the player unit steps to the 21st position through a normally closed switch on 'Z2' and normally closed switches on all score units of the 1st two players, actuating 'Z2' relay. The 3rd and 4th player score units now reset through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A, and 'Z2'. The player unit continues to its zero position through the closed switches on 'Z1', 'Z2', 'P5B' and motor 1A until 'P5B' opens.

I'm thinking at this point it has something to do the 20th and 21st position switch they are talking about here.

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#20 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

A new update.

I tightened the screws at the Player unit and now I can get the scores to reset every now and then.

BUT now, the player's unit has a harder time cycling through all the way. So I plan on taking down the backbox this week at some point and cleaning the score reels all up and attempting to break apart the Player unit. The Barrel style Player units scare the shit out of me so I am really hoping for the best here. But I want to get that moving a little more freely and taking the time to adjust it right.

Also another thing, after I tightened the screws on the Player unit, it no longer reads that the ball has drained? Not sure about that one, I guess that's one of the switches on the player unit as well.

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#21 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

Sometimes when I'm dis-assembling something complex that I'm not familiar with, I will take a pic after removing each part. When it comes time to re-assemble, I just look at the pics in reverse order, and that provides a pretty good roadmap for how to put it back together.

Pay particular attention to the order and orientation of the plastic cams when you remove them from the gear axle. They will come apart into separate cams as you remove them. You need to be sure that you put them back together the same way, so that the lobes on the cams are lined up properly in relation to each other, and to the main gear wheel.

- TimMe

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#22 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from TimMe:
Sometimes when I'm dis-assembling something complex that I'm not familiar with, I will take a pic after removing each part. When it comes time to re-assemble, I just look at the pics in reverse order, and that provides a pretty good roadmap for how to put it back together.
Pay particular attention to the order and orientation of the plastic cams when you remove them from the gear axle. They will come apart into separate cams as you remove them. You need to be sure that you put them back together the same way, so that the lobes on the cams are lined up properly in relation to each other, and to the main gear wheel.
- TimMe

Thank you for giving me the heads up on that. I'll draw a line across all of them with a marker to make sure they are lined up perfectly when I'm done.

Is there a switch on the player unit that would recognize a ball draining?

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#23 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

OP
Quoted from futurepinhead:
Is there a switch on the player unit that would recognize a ball draining?

I was going to look at the schematic on this one and try to trace it but I guess there is not one online for this one.

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#24 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,380 84 122 1

OP
Quoted from futurepinhead:
I was going to look at the schematic on this one and try to trace it but I guess there is not one online for this one.

They are not online for any Gottliebs due do copyright issues. I'd definitely buy one from PBR for any Gottlieb EM, makes it much easier to troubleshoot

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#25 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from zacaj:
They are not online for any Gottliebs due do copyright issues. I'd definitely buy one from PBR for any Gottlieb EM, makes it much easier to troubleshoot

Makes sense, thanks for the info otherwise I would have still been looking

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#26 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

As for the ball draining issue, can you be more specific about the symptoms you are seeing? For example, is the ball landing in the outhole, and then absolutely nothing happens?

Thanks - TimMe

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#27 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from TimMe:
As for the ball draining issue, can you be more specific about the symptoms you are seeing? For example, is the ball landing in the outhole, and then absolutely nothing happens?
Thanks - TimMe

When playing a game, the ball will go into the trough and that's it. The switch doesn't tell the game to switch to ball 2. I was looking at the switch in the trough, but I am thinking that it has to do with something in the Player Unit, I'm assuming its like a Williams and has the ball # indicator on the Player Unit as well, right?

Essentially the game played perfect last night except for the score reset. I tightened the screws on the Player unit (probably too tight in hindsight) and the scores started resetting every now and again, but all kinds of other issues started up.

1. Ball not reading drained anymore
2. Sometimes switches from Player 1 to Player 4 randomly
3. It always had difficulty getting around the circle completely, but now it's really having troubles.

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#28 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

The switch in the trough should energize the P (add player unit) relay. The P relay should make the score motor run, and step the player unit.

If the P relay is pulling in and the score motor is running, but the player unit isn't stepping up, then you either have a bad switch connection somewhere in the circuit path that generates the pulse to the player unit add coil, or you have a mechanical problem with the player unit itself.

Since you just tightened a bunch of screws on the player unit, and it's now having trouble stepping, I suggest that you check for a mechanical issue first. A quick and easy way to check for mechanical binding is to actuate the stepper by hand. If you operate the add unit coil plunger with your finger, does the player unit step exactly one position easily and smoothly each time, all the way around? If not, you've got some kind of mechanical problem.

- TimMe

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#29 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from TimMe:
does the player unit step exactly one position easily and smoothly each time, all the way around? If not, you've got some kind of mechanical problem.

It definitely does not turn easily. Sometimes it has to fire 4 or 5 times before it will go one notch. This is why I was wanting to take it apart and do some cleaning. The little bracket that goes into the step to lock it into place does not move inward at all. I have cleaned several Player units before without issue, but this will be my first barrel style so it's just making me a little nervous. I'll attempt it this weekend. I am 90% positive at this point all my remaining issues are in the player unit.

0

1

#30 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

It sure sounds like that's what you need to do. Other than the metal assembly holding the switch stack, and the extra-long gear axle with the plastic cams on it, the player unit is exactly like any other continuous Gottlieb stepper. So you should be fine.

One other tip: Before you start to dis-assemble the player unit, step it around to the point where the single lobe on the black cam is lifting its switch stack. Then make a note of the position of the wipers relative to the rivet disc. This is the "player 1 ball 1" position. You'll want to make sure that the wipers are set to this same position relative to the black cam when you re-assemble.

- TimMe

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#31 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

I just now got started on this last night. I have the player unit running smooth. It all appears to be back to its original spot, so fingers crossed.

I'm cleaning up my Score reels while I have the head on the workbench and I have a question. On some, even after I polish/clean them up, they are having difficulty going from 8 to 9. Any tips? I was thinking ok taking a link up on the spring but I wanted to ask first.

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#32 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,380 84 122 1

Common problem on gottlieb score reels. I often have luck getting them to work by just adjusting the middle switch of the three switches at the back (the 9/0 position switches) as far to the right (with the coil end of the reel facing you) as possible while still letting it make contact correctly. The 9th position is the hardest to get to as the reel has to push all those switches over. Watch how the switches move as you click the reel around a few times and you'll see what I mean.

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#33 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from zacaj:
Common problem on gottlieb score reels. I often have luck getting them to work by just adjusting the middle switch of the three switches at the back (the 9/0 position switches) as far to the right (with the coil end of the reel facing you) as possible while still letting it make contact correctly. The 9th position is the hardest to get to as the reel has to push all those switches over. Watch how the switches move as you click the reel around a few times and you'll see what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean, I started to do that last night actually but I wasn't exactly sure what the problem was. So between 8-9, the major roadbump is just the extreme pressure caused by the two switches needing to make contact. So I just need to make them make contact further back. I can do that.

0

#34 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,380 84 122 1

OP
Quoted from futurepinhead:
I know exactly what you mean, I started to do that last night actually but I wasn't exactly sure what the problem was. So between 8-9, the major roadbump is just the extreme pressure caused by the two switches needing to make contact. So I just need to make them make contact further back. I can do that.

If you want to be thorough, disassemble each reel and clean everything with alcohol first, and if the switch adjustment still doesn't fix it, try making the return spring tighter, but if it's just a reel or two sticking I'll just try the switches first as I hate taking apart the gottlieb reels

0

#35 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from zacaj:
If you want to be thorough, disassemble each reel and clean everything with alcohol first, and if the switch adjustment still doesn't fix it, try making the return spring tighter, but if it's just a reel or two sticking I'll just try the switches first as I hate taking apart the gottlieb reels

I spent a couple hours cleaning the unit and 4 of the Score reels yesterday. I'd say about half are sticking on 8-9.

0

1

#36 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

I think that making the return spring stronger should only be done as a last resort, as that is almost never the root cause of the problem. If the mechanism itself is clean and operating smoothly, but the score unit is still hanging up when indexing, here are some things to check:

1. As others have already mentioned, the switch stack switch blades for run-out and carry may be pushing too hard against the actuator, which is operated by the roller-coaster cam on the underside of the reel. Make sure to adjust the switch blades so that there is minimum pressure on the actuator. The carry switch (the one on the top) should be putting virtually zero pressure on the actuator when the score reel is at "0" to "8".

2. For score units with a circuit board, the foil (trace) side of the board may be dirty and/or the wiper fingers are pressing too hard against the board and/or the face of the board is not lubricated. In my experience, the best way to clean the foil side of the board is with metal polish, the paste type that you can buy at automotive supply stores. Once the board is super clean and shiny, put a very thin film of light oil (3-in-1 works well) over the foil side of the board. When putting the board down on the spindle, watch the wiper fingers and see how much they are deflected by the board as you get it into position. The fingers should only lightly contact the board - about 1/8" of deflection.

3. The anti-back turn spring finger that rides the ratchets on the underside of the reel may be pushing against the reel with too much force, or the finger may be out of adjustment such that the edge of the finger is scraping against the plastic reel. Check the spring finger when putting on the reel and confirm it's not deflected more than 1/8" as the reel goes into place. Also confirm the finger isn't scraping any part of the reel (this is a very rare problem).

4. The spring washer that goes just under the spindle retaining clip may be pushing with too much force. Try relaxing the curve of the spring washer a bit with pliers and see if that clears up the problem. Note that if you relax the spring washer too much, you will reduce the travel of the switch actuator and the switch stack, so don't go overboard, and also check that the switch stack is still operating correctly if you make this adjustment.

- TimMe

.

0

#37 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Quoted from TimMe:
I think that making the return spring stronger should only be done as a last resort, as that is almost never the root cause of the problem. If the mechanism itself is clean and operating smoothly, but the score unit is still hanging up when indexing, here are some things to check:
1. As others have already mentioned, the switch stack switch blades for run-out and carry may be pushing too hard against the actuator, which is operated by the roller-coaster cam on the underside of the reel. Make sure to adjust the switch blades so that there is minimum pressure on the actuator. The carry switch (the one on the top) should be putting virtually zero pressure on the actuator when the score reel is at "0" to "8".
2. For score units with a circuit board, the foil (trace) side of the board may be dirty and/or the wiper fingers are pressing too hard against the board and/or the face of the board is not lubricated. In my experience, the best way to clean the foil side of the board is with metal polish, the paste type that you can buy at automotive supply stores. Once the board is super clean and shiny, put a very thin film of light oil (3-in-1 works well) over the foil side of the board. When putting the board down on the spindle, watch the wiper fingers and see how much they are deflected by the board as you get it into position. The fingers should only lightly contact the board - about 1/8" of deflection.
3. The anti-back turn spring finger that rides the ratchets on the underside of the reel may be pushing against the reel with too much force, or the finger may be out of adjustment such that the edge of the finger is scraping against the plastic reel. Check the spring finger when putting on the reel and confirm it's not deflected more than 1/8" as the reel goes into place. Also confirm the finger isn't scraping any part of the reel (this is a very rare problem).
4. The spring washer that goes just under the spindle retaining clip may be pushing with too much force. Try relaxing the curve of the spring washer a bit with pliers and see if that clears up the problem. Note that if you relax the spring washer too much, you will reduce the travel of the switch actuator and the switch stack, so don't go overboard, and also check that the switch stack is still operating correctly if you make this adjustment.
- TimMe
.

Those are all amazing suggestions. Every single one makes sense to me. So I'll get it all finished and hopefully tested tonight.

Thanks fellas

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#38 7 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

Thanks, I hope they help!

One other super important thing when you assemble a decagon unit is to make sure that you have the hub gear properly engaged with the drive rack. If you get this off by even one tooth, the unit will not index correctly. Here's a pic showing the proper engagement. I know your units have a plastic rack instead of a metal one, but the engagement is the same in either case.

- TimMe

dec_teeth (resized).jpg

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#39 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Yes, I saw that last night, it was a first for me. I've rebuilt many reels before, but this is the first Gottlieb that I had to tear down completely. Thanks for the heads up.

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#40 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

I just hope the Player unit fixes all my previous issues. I'm just doing the score reels while I have the head on my table.

0

#41 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Alright, I put about 3 hours into it last night. Half of that time was working on my first one. I had to do all of your suggestions on that one. I did about 4 more score reels last night. What surprised me the most is how much difference that little spring washer made. That fixed it on a couple of them alone. Others it took a combination. I think I'm going to be glad I put in the extra time on these.

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#42 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

This 8 to 9 issue is going to cause a spontaneous combustion off this pinball

0

#43 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Ok I think I have it all dialed in now. Going to give it one last look tomorrow and then test it...

0

#44 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Ugh, I tested them again by hand and I have two that are back to not going from 8 to 9 and I tested my Player's unit again and its completely seized. I don't understand that one bit, it was fine last night. Back to work...

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#45 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Seriously good night here.
After having the backbox on the kitchen table for about a week working on it nightly, I was able to finally get satisfied enough on all the reels and the player unit this evening. I hooked it all back up and everything was resetting and it cycled to zero on all but one, but the motor kept spinning. Now I did the usual stuff we worked out earlier on the motor, but the only way to get the motor to stop spinning now is to hit the player unit 4 to 5 times. Then it stops.
The score reel not spinning on one came down to the switch being closed at the zero switch when it shouldn't have been. I must have bumped it while putting it back into plays.

What's the next thing to approach it.?

0

#46 7 years ago

OP

JDN

futurepinhead

Pinside member

12y 76,800 3,358 25

Pretty good update. I have it all resetting perfectly fine now and the motor stops when it is supposed to.

My last issue was one reel the 9th position switch was closed at 1-8 as well as 9. Fixed that and motor stopped right away. Now I just need to figure out the last few issues and move on to my 4 Roses.

I'm going to mark this one as solved since the Statup issues are complete. Thanks everyone.

By futurepinhead

7 years ago

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