(Topic ID: 256215)

Gottlieb Super Soccer won't advance to 4th player


By Boslaw

16 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by Boslaw
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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snow1 (resized).jpg
0Super-Soccer-Work-04 (resized).jpg
0Super-Soccer-Work-03 (resized).jpg
Super Soccer Player Unit 2 (resized).jpg
Capture (resized).PNG
Super Soccer Player Unit (resized).jpg
CamPositions-4Player (resized).jpg
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#1 16 days ago

I have the schematics and I've read through a few threads here about how to read schematics, but I'm still clueless. When player 3 drains a ball, the solenoid in the backbox never seems to get power to advance for player 4 (although if I press the solenoid manually it does advance). I assume this means I likely have a broken or disconnected wire somewhere, but I have no idea what I should do to find that broken connection. I know I should probably jumper some other connection as a test, but I don't know where to begin deciding what to jumper. Any help is GREATLY appreciated.

#2 16 days ago

Check PB4 on the Player Unit. You can drop it by pulling the cotter pin to get at the switch.

CamPositions-4Player (resized).jpgCapture (resized).PNG
#3 16 days ago

This, from Clay's superb guide, might be helpful in learning to read schematics: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#schematic

Remember that schematics are a guide to connections, not a literal map-ie: something that shows as a connection on the schematic is not necessarily near that other part.

#4 16 days ago
Quoted from Boslaw:

When player 3 drains a ball, the solenoid in the backbox never seems to get power to advance for player 4.

Player Units are tricky. Here's a simplified schematic for Super Soccer:
Super Soccer Player Unit (resized).jpg
In a four player game I think the PB2, PB3 and PB4 switches in the red box are all open. If that's the case then every time the Player Unit steps it gets a pulse through the Score Motor 2C switch and a switch on the P relay (in the red box).

Start a 4 player game and watch the P relay every time the ball drains. If the playfield is up you may need to hit the Outhole switch and then the Ball Trough switch to get the Player Unit to advance. Does the P relay behave the same when player 3 drains as it does when players 1 and 2 drain?

/Mark

#5 16 days ago

Thanks everyone for the replies. I’ve checked the P relay (easiest for me to check since the play field is up). It behaves the same after the ball drains and trough switch is pressed for each player. Next I’ll check the player unit although it’s a bit intimidating with all of the switches.

#6 15 days ago

I’ve discovered that if I flip the out hole and trough switch on player floor without registering any score for player 3, the player unit will correctly progress to player 4. If player 3 scores any points, the player unit will not progress to player 4 if the ball is drained. I’m not sure what that means or where to look for the problem but maybe one of you pinball geniuses can point me in the next direction?

#7 15 days ago
Quoted from Boslaw:

If player 3 scores any points, the player unit will not progress to player 4 if the ball is drained.

Any points, or just Bonus points? There's a Zero Position switch on the Bonus unit that might be a factor.

#8 15 days ago

Any points. To test, I have the playfield up, so I've been tapping the bumpers next to the flippers a few times, then tapping the outhole switch and the trough switch to advance to the next player. The strange thing is, if I DON'T add any score on player 1, then I can't advance to player 2, but if I DO add score to player 3, then I can't advance to player 4.

When I get stuck on player 3, if I drop coins and press the button to add players and reset the game, the motor in the cabinet just spins endlessly without actually resetting. I have to manually operate the ZB1 and ZB2 switches to reset the game.

If I play a 1 or 2 player game, none of the above happens. The game works as it should.

#9 15 days ago
Quoted from Boslaw:

When I get stuck on player 3, if I drop coins and press the button to add players and reset the game, the motor in the cabinet just spins endlessly without actually resetting. I have to manually operate the ZB1 and ZB2 switches to reset the game.

If I play a 1 or 2 player game, none of the above happens. The game works as it should.

Did you check the Player Unit sw. (posts above)? If Z2, which resets players 3 and 4, is not functioning correctly (motor spins) it again might come down to the PU. Hopefully it's not that resistor, which is in the PU.
Capture (resized).PNG

#10 15 days ago

If I add points to Player 3 and cause the problem (won't advance to Player 4), I must manually press the Z1 and Z2 switches to reset the game. They will never reset on their own after the fault situation is created. Therefore, I assume the Z1 and Z2 switches are working correctly, but something is stopping them in this particular situation? That could be a bad assumption - I don't know what I'm doing!

#11 14 days ago

I wonder if maybe the Z1 or Z2 switch in the red box is opening during the game and preventing the Player Unit from advancing:
Super Soccer Player Unit 2 (resized).jpg
These switches should be open during reset to force the score reels to reset, but once the game has started they should stay closed.

If you jumper across either the Z1 or Z2 switch, or even both of them with an alligator clip test lead can you get from player 3 to player 4?

#12 14 days ago

I don’t know a lot about schematics either. I’m still learning. Just go through the whole machine and check every switch. It’s probably something really simple right in front of you. I had an issue today with a machine I just picked up and it was something simple. Same with the last one I picked up a few weeks ago. Walk away for a bit if you have to and come back to it because it can get frustrating. Side note: I have the two player version of this game.

#13 14 days ago
Quoted from Murphdom:

Just go through the whole machine and check every switch.

With respect, I have to disagree with this advice until you have enough experience to be pretty sure you won't make things worse.

Quoted from Murphdom:

Walk away for a bit if you have to and come back to it because it can get frustrating.

Good advice for any project.

#14 14 days ago

I should have been more clear. I wasn’t referring to going crazy and adjusting switches. By checking switches I meant make sure none are stuck or pushed closed that are supposed to be open.

#15 14 days ago

Hi Boslaw
I take Your post-6 and MarkG 's thinking (post-11) and suggest a test like the JPG I show here. Greetings Rolf

0Super-Soccer-Work-03 (resized).jpg
#16 12 days ago

Thanks Rolf. I'm trying to decipher the schematic but having trouble understanding exactly where to attach the alligator clips.

#17 12 days ago

Hi Boslaw
You may do the test (post-16) - (but) then You must do what I show here --- so You can leave out "test post-16" and just do:
Locate on Z2-Relay the only "normally-closed" switch (there are 8 normally-open switches also) --- clean the contact-points on the two blades of this switch and check for "truely closed when relay is non-pulling". On one side of the switch is soldered-on "wire-of-color-BR-WH-RED" - truely soldered-on ? (grab the wire and gently pull a bit) - then follow this wire until You reach "coil on Player-Unit" --- the wire may run through a Jones-Plug - all good (clean , wire(s) soldered-on) ?
On the other solder-lug on the switch on Z2-Relay is soldered-on a wire-of-color-OR-WH-RED or maybe a wire of any color --- truely soldered-on (pull a bit) ? --- follow this wire until You reach its end beeing soldered-on at another solder-lug (maybe on "switch on Z1-relay").

See the JPG --- either the switch on Z2-Relay is no good - or one wire to the switch is no good - or the other wire to the switch is no good --- or it is and/and/and or and/or/and --- or ... Greetings Rolf

0Super-Soccer-Work-04 (resized).jpg
#18 11 days ago

Thanks Rolf, I'll give this a try this weekend

#19 9 days ago

Hi Rolf and everyone else who took some time to respond. I don't know exactly what caused the problem but it now seems fixed. Following advice above, I did the following:

1. made sure Z1 and Z2 N/C switches were clean and actually closed when not pulling
2. traced the wires suggested by Rolf to ensure no bad solder joints or breaks
3. Cleaned jones plugs that the wires above were passing through

Along the way, I found an "F"switch/unit that was not properly engaged and was filthy. I cleaned that up and manually ensured that the unit arm was stepping through each number

I also found a weak solder joint on player 1 100's solenoid that I resoldered

As I said, not sure which of the above actually fixed the problem but your suggestions gave me direction to step through this methodically instead of being overwhelmed by all of the wires.

#20 9 days ago

Well, guess I spoke too soon. Now I have a new problem. When I get to the 5th ball on player 1, the player 1 light turns off, and the chimes stop ringing for each point. On game over, player 1 and player 4 light up on a 1 player game, but the game ends properly.

I think maybe the player unit has some issues, it doesn't always advance smoothly. I've tried cleaning it up (rivets are all clean) but maybe it's sticky or something.

Back to troubleshooting. . .

#21 7 days ago

The rivet may be clean, but are the Springs sticky.
I had to clean mine with rubbing alcohol and then add a very small drop of white lithium grease to the small metal shafts to ensure the moved smoothly. I would push the shaft until the spring is compressesed and add the grease on the other side of the bakelite disc.
snow1 (resized).jpg

#22 7 days ago

I will try this, thanks

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