(Topic ID: 229086)

Gottlieb Super Soccer no replay award for points scored........fixed

By Sonora70

5 years ago


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#1 5 years ago

I thought I had this one complete however I've noticed that it is not giving credit when reaching high scores. I set the pin to 34000 (I think) and its not awarding the replay when the score is scored. It does award a replay when the special light is lit and the target is made so I know the credit unit is working.

I have a schematic but I'm having trouble following and working through the logic. Any help and a "lesson" in reading this area of the schematic is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

#2 5 years ago

Here's how this circuit works for player 1 when you have the Point Score adjustment on 34,000

1) When you score 1000 and
2) Player Unit switch P1E is closed and
3) The 1st Player 1000 unit is on 3000 and
4) The Point Score adjustment is on 34000 and
5) The 1st Player 10,000 unit is on 30000 and
6) Player Unit wiper is in the right position
then
7) A replay is awarded.

Does this help?

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Here's how this circuit works for player 1 when you have the Point Score adjustment on 34,000
1) When you score 1000 and
2) Player Unit switch P1E is closed and
3) The 1st Player 1000 unit is on 3000 and
4) The Point Score adjustment is on 34000 and
5) The 1st Player 10,000 unit is on 30000 and
6) Player Unit wiper is in the right position
then
7) A replay is awarded.
Does this help?
[quoted image]

It does....thanks. I'll try to take it to the pin this evening. Nice diagram!

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from Sonora70:

It does....thanks. I'll try to take it to the pin this evening. Nice diagram!

Traced all switches to the 1000's unit, all making contact. Still no replay award. I have what may be a dumb question, each of the point adjustment pins in the back box have an orange wire attached with an additional pin. Should the orange wired pin be plugged in somewhere? I can't find where it would be.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Sonora70:

Traced all switches to the 1000's unit, all making contact

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

Do you know how to use Alligator clip jumper wires?
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

Quoted from Sonora70:

Should the orange wired pin be plugged in somewhere?

The additional pin with an orange wire is there in case you want e.g. a replay at 31,000 and 38,000. It's fine to leave one or both pins unplugged. Some games have little holes drilled in the wood to store unused plugs.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening
Do you know how to use Alligator clip jumper wires?
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

The additional pin with an orange wire is there in case you want e.g. a replay at 31,000 and 38,000. It's fine to leave one or both pins unplugged. Some games have little holes drilled in the wood to store unused plugs.

Yes, I've used them from the L relay to the 1000s score unit. Not sure how to proceed from there.

#7 5 years ago

Does it fail to award point-score replays on all 4 players?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Do you know how to use Alligator clip jumper wires?

Quoted from Sonora70:

Yes, I've used them from the L relay to the 1000s score unit. Not sure how to proceed from there.

One example: Clip one alligator clip to the Red-Gr wire on the 24 volt circuit fuse at schematic 21F, and tap the other end on the Or-Gr wire on the Player unit (near my green "6"). If no replay is awarded then there's a problem outside the circuit you just bypassed. Probably in the Player unit wiper circuit.

You can test other parts of the circuit in a similar way. Let me know if you need more help.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

Does it fail to award point-score replays on all 4 players?

It gives credit on player 2. Haven't checked 3 and 4.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

One example: Clip one alligator clip to the Red-Gr wire on the 24 volt circuit fuse at schematic 21F, and tap the other end on the Or-Gr wire on the Player unit (near my green "6"). If no replay is awarded then there's a problem outside the circuit you just bypassed. Probably in the Player unit wiper circuit.
You can test other parts of the circuit in a similar way. Let me know if you need more help.

Jumped from the Red-Gr wire to the Or-Gr wire. A replay was awarded.

I understand the schematic until it gets to the "Point Score ADJ". I don't understand what happens from there going to the 10,000 unit. In the physical machine, I can't figure out how that part of the circuit works.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from Sonora70:

I understand the schematic until it gets to the "Point Score ADJ". I don't understand what happens from there going to the 10,000 unit. In the physical machine, I can't figure out how that part of the circuit works.

Ignoring the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th player Thousands and Ten Thousands units, the Point Score ADJ connects the 1st player Thousands unit wiper & disk to the 1st player Ten Thousand unit wiper and disk. That's how plugging the #3 plug into the 4000 socket gives a replay when you score 34,000 as I mentioned in my first post to this thread.

Quoted from Sonora70:

Does it fail to award point-score replays on all 4 players?

Quoted from Sonora70:

It gives credit on player 2

In that case, the problem is most likely in the part of the circuit that's unique to player 1, namely the 1st player Thousands unit wiper&disk or the 1st player Ten Thousand unit wiper&disk.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

In that case, the problem is most likely in the part of the circuit that's unique to player 1, namely the 1st player Thousands unit wiper&disk or the 1st player Ten Thousand unit wiper&disk.

That's where I was about to go. If a multi-player machine awards score-based replays on the other players, but not on one player, the issue is extremely likely to be with the wiper and circuit boards of the appropriate score reels. Check for broken solder joints on the wires to the circuit boards first and then for dirty wiper contacts and/or circuit board copper traces. That copper can get pretty corroded. If the issue is not there, likely have a break in a longer run of wire.

#13 5 years ago

Found the problem, as suspected it was in the player 1 thousands reel. The "hard" wire on the outside (top corner) of the circuit board had a cold solder joint on the trace side of the board. Thanks for the help.

Though the pin is fixed, I'm still trying to following the schematic through this particular feature. I have some confusion with the origin and destination of the point adjust pin wires. I may be over thinking it.....

#14 5 years ago

Hi Sonora70
You were moaning about the schematics. May I enlighten (or confuse ?) You ? See the JPG - it is from my Far Out pin - in the pin there are the wires, in the lower part of the JPG I cleaned out many wirings (easyer to look at the JPG) - I only show the wiring for "some*** 50'000 points (blue lines)" and for "some*** 80'000 points (brown lines)". In the pin there are the wires, in the upper part of the JPG I cleaned out many wirings - I only show the wiring for "3000*** points (blue lines)" and for "5000*** points (brown lines)".

At "my red E" You see: I plugged-in the wire for "some*** 50'000 points (blue)" into the socket for "4000 points (blue)", the socket (4000) is connected to "3000 on the Score Drums".
Lets gain a Replay by reaching the limit of 54000 points. Player-1 is playing so "my red B" is as shown in the JPG - so "my red L" is as shown in the JPG. The 10'000-Score-Drum of Player-1 is in Position "5 means some 50'000 points, my red I,J", the 1000-Score-Drum of Player-1 is in Position "3 means 3000 - my red C, don't worry, read on". The ball on the playfield hits a target. A thousand points shall be made - the L-1000-Points-Relay (upper left corner in the JPG) is made to actuate - it pulls-in so switch "my red A" closes - Player-1 is playing (my red B is closed) - look further: A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,IJ,K,L,M,N,O --- nice, the Replay-Counter is stepped up.

Maybe confusing - the some*** - and the 3000*** and the 5000*** (?)
The pin and us have different opinions on "making 1000 points" --- we say: 1000 points are made because we see a Score-Drum do a step. The pin says: 1000 points are made when the 1000-Point-Relay starts pulling-in - this is an off-setin time, the pin is earlyer than us.
Making 1000 points: The 1000-Point-Relay pulls-in, closes switches - one closed switch let current flow to the Coil on the 1000-Points-Score-Drum - the plunger on the Drum is pulled-in - NOW the 1000-Point-Relay is made "stop-pulling" - the switch on the relay opening cuts current to the coil on the drum - the plunger on the drum is pulled back by its retaining spring - NOW, tooth on the pulled-back plunger behind tooth on the gear on the drum - NOW the drum is stepped and we see "points are made".
To make an replay on 54'000 points: The thousands Drum must be in position "3" - the 1000-Point-Relay pulls-in - through the wiring in the JPG the Replay is given - THEN the Drum is stepped and we see "4 means 54'000 points."
All the "some*** XX'000 points wires" have the range "31'000 ... 40'000" or "41'000 ... 50'000" or, or, or.
Enlightened or confused ? Greetings Rolf

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