Hi all,

I spent the whole weekend on one final issue with this machine, and cannot fix it...and of course have now made it worse. Not used to working on 4 player Gottlieb's and while I have the schematic, the advance player unit, plus the large relay bank, are scary!

Background: This was a project machine. I got everything working, so that it played a complete, correct game for 1, 2 or 3 players.

If you tried to add a 4th player, the PB4 (player 4) relay pulled in correctly, but no player 4 light came on, and at the end of player 3 ball 1, it just skipped to ball 2 player 1.

I'm sure there was more than one issue here, because I thought the easiest test was the player 4 lamp. The lamp works as it comes on for Game Over (XB), as per the schematic, surely just close the switch on PB4 that has Yellow and Black/Red
IMG_4080a (resized).jpg
But the only yellow on PB4 is yellow with a green. IMG_4081a (resized).jpg
When I jumped them, no lamp. I jumpered the other switch that "should" be closed - still no lamp. Hmmm

Although it would not fix the above, I noticed that the swiches close nicely when the relay back is flipped up, but do not when they are back in the seated position.

Question 1: does anyone have a PB4 - are these switches missing a space or something?

IMG_4079a (resized).jpgI have tried adjusting them for hours so that the are "really" closed when PB4 is engaged, but when I put the bank into its seated position the bar pushes a little and the switches are then not made.

I know Clay's guide talks about this - but I really cannot get them to stay closed when the bank is down - any thoughts?

Of course, I thought I could adjust the relay bank (there are two screws on each side), tried moving it around a little, no joy, put it back, and now:

Press Credit button once - all ok (can play a complete 3 ball game)

But, press credit button again, instead of moving to player 2, the game goes through its full reset back to ready for player 1 again - ARRRRH!

I am very sorry for the long post, always a fine line between too much and too little info.

Summary, working backwards:

1. Anything obvious to check that now causes it to reset when pressing credit button twice, rather than adding player 2?

2. Any advice on the lower PB4 switches, getting them to remain closed when relay sitting in locked down position?

3. If I get those fixed, then I can look at why no Player 4 is being added

thanks!!!!

Excellent info, Rolf - thanks! Yes the make/break on the ZB was not good enough - now fixed and the game starts correctly for 1-3 players.

I am back to the player 4 issue (PB4 pulls in correctly after 4th press of credit button, but the game plays just a 3 player game)

I checked that all the switches on PB4 - and all make and break as they should.

I called the previous owner, who told me he had to rebuild a lot of the relay bank as it was severely damaged when he got the machine 7 years ago. He said he's not sure if he ever got player four working, as there were only 3 in his family so he stopped there, (kids and pinball repair!)

So, I think there may be some weird wires, or something missing, that would be very hard to figure out.

Much though it pains me, I may just accept defeat and accept its a three player machine with some spare score reels!

thanks again, Rolf!

Well, Rolf, you inspired me to have a go at fixing. I started with the P4 lamp, steps in case (however unlikley) someone else has this issue:

1. Found the wire connected to the P4 lamp itself
2. Traced that to the back box jones plug (yellow wire)
3. Tested between PB4 switch and the yellow wire, and found the switch on PB4 that connects to the yellow wire
4. But the other side of that was not connected to the 6 volts coming out of the 15amp fuse
5. So found a switch on PB3 that was connected to the 6 volts
6. Run small wire from the 6v on PB3 to the one needed on PB4

And, Hey Presto! Not only did P4 light at the correct time, it played a 4 player game correctly. Woo hoo!

(Its a pretty cool game with the back box ball animation, plus double spinners, kick out holes and the mystery bonus kick out hole)

Thanks, Rolf.