(Topic ID: 242905)

Gottlieb Spirit of 76 drop targets will score 100 but not 500 each


By packie1

11 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 hours ago by packie1
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 2 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Spirit of 76 M relay (resized).jpg
Spirit of 76 500 point relay (resized).jpg

#1 11 days ago

Bringing a Spirit of 76 back to life.
Lots of messed up switches and other hack items. Got machine starting, coining up and plays, now it seems that the drop targets which are to score 500 for each is only scoring 100 for each.
Before this post, the targets would drop but it would not add any score. After looking at the schematics, I checked relay D as that controls the 500 points and bonus. I cleaned the contacts, adjusted the blades, checked the wiring. All is good. I then checked the 1A motor and switches. The motor makes a rotation and I can count the 5 clicks of the A reel. I will see it spark the contacts once and then nothing. Again I cleaned and adjusted the blades on 1A and still only one score of 100.
I checked the wiring from relay D to the motor and it is fine as well.
Any ideas on what to look for now?
Thanks
Mike

#2 11 days ago

Once activated by a drop target or rollover switch, the D/500 Point relay should start the Score Motor and stay active the entire time the Score Motor is turning, relaxing only when the Score Motor stops. If your D relay isn't doing that you won't get 500 points.

/Mark

#3 10 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Once activated by a drop target or rollover switch, the D/500 Point relay should start the Score Motor and stay active the entire time the Score Motor is turning, relaxing only when the Score Motor stops. If your D relay isn't doing that you won't get 500 points.
/Mark

Not sure what you mean by staying active? It pulls in at first and then it looks as if it goes back to rest position but the score motor will tick off the five times with only one spark out of the five. What would keep the relay pulled in?
Mike

#4 10 days ago

The D/500 point relay is what lets the 5 pulses generated by the Score Motor get to your 100 point relay. The Score Motor runs for many reasons. 500 points is just one reason. The D relay is what gives you 500 points when you've earned it, and not every other time the Score Motor turns.

But to get those 500 points the D relay needs to stay active, or pulled in while the Score Motor turns through its 120 degree (1/3 turn) cycle. The lock in circuit in red below is what keeps the D relay active once it fires:
Spirit of 76 500 point relay (resized).jpg
When the D relay fires because of a drop target or whatever, it closes its own lock in switch (in red) until the Score Motor reaches the end of its cycle when the Score Motor 2B switch opens and lets the D relay relax. Chances are that your D relay lock in switch (orange-white wire to brown-black wire) isn't closing when the D relay fires, or it's dirty, or it's wire has come loose, etc.

#5 9 days ago

Ok So I went back to the machine. I checked the switch and I cleaned it and I adjusted it. Adjust it too close and it fires all the time, adjust it too far and it doesnt score. Find that sweet spot and it scores 100 and that's it.

I ran a lead from brown/black to the score motor, no difference scores 100 that's it.
Checked the switch on 2B and it closes until it reaches the peg and opens. Put a test light on it to verify that.

Put a test lead from brown/black switch leg on relay and the other end on the org/white blade and still only scores 100 and then nothing.
I closed switch on motor 2b with jumper and scores 100.

Not sure what to look for now.
Mike

#6 9 days ago

So does the D/500 point relay now stay active or pulled in until the Score Motor 2B switch opens at the end of 1/3 turn? If so, move on to the M/100 point relay circuit:
Spirit of 76 M relay (resized).jpg
If the D relay switch is closed the entire time the Score Motor turns through its cycle, the M relay should fire 5 times (awarding 100 points each time), once for each time the Score Motor 1A switch closes.

#7 5 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

So does the D/500 point relay now stay active or pulled in until the Score Motor 2B switch opens at the end of 1/3 turn? If so, move on to the M/100 point relay circuit:
[quoted image]
If the D relay switch is closed the entire time the Score Motor turns through its cycle, the M relay should fire 5 times (awarding 100 points each time), once for each time the Score Motor 1A switch closes.

No the D/500 relay does not stay pulled in.

#8 5 days ago

Is there a difference in drop target point value between 5 balls per play vs 3 balls per play ?

#9 5 days ago

If you hold the d relay in by hand for 120 degrees does it score the 500 points?

#10 5 days ago
Quoted from OCD_pinball:

Is there a difference in drop target point value between 5 balls per play vs 3 balls per play ?

I don't think so. It looks like a 3 ball game changes the pop bumpers from 100 to 1000 points, and makes the B and D rollovers light each other but the drop targets should always fire the D relay for 500 points.

#11 5 days ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

If you hold the d relay in by hand for 120 degrees does it score the 500 points?

yes it does

#12 4 days ago

That era of machine should have a score motor service jack. Set it to off position, push in d relay, does it stay pulled in? Slowly turn the score motor disc for the 120 degrees and watch when the d relay opens.

#13 4 days ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

That era of machine should have a score motor service jack. Set it to off position, push in d relay, does it stay pulled in? Slowly turn the score motor disc for the 120 degrees and watch when the d relay opens.

thanks I will try that.

#14 3 days ago

Since I had posted this on pinside, I was told to disengage the score motor and activate a 500 target. I did this and the D coil locked on. I turned the score assy and it hit the first peg and it scored 100 points. I turned it more and I heard nothing, turned it again and now a buzzing was coming from AX or BX coil. No score, turned again no score and the buzz stopped. I reattached the score motor and ran it again. It rang up 100 points clicked 4 more times and no score.

I decided to look at the AX coil as it was screwed up from the start of this restore. I checked gaps, alignment and looked for spinners. I did find the blades a little off kilter and adjusted them. I fixed the gap again. I then did the above again with only 100 scoring again. This time I heard the buzz from BX and adjusted it as the AX.
This time I started a game and it would not reset the score reels and would not reset the game. It did allow me to ring up points.

I figured I screwed up the AX or BX and took the AX coil and adjusted its gaps again.
I started the game but no resets of the score reels, but DAMN the 500 points now score correctly.

#15 9 hours ago

Seems that the terrible to adjust AX and BX were the roots of my evils. I adjusted AX and game reset and score 500 correctly but the game would not end. Get to ball 5 and keep on a going. I then looked on pinside and saw a ton of folks with that issue related to BX or AX out of adjustment.
I then watched Clay's video and adjusted the crap out of AX and tried the game, all worked except the 5 ball/game over. Then I adjusted BX and played it again. Goes to 5 ball and stops!!!

Now I have just a few minor things, pop bumper that sticks, couple lite sockets not working, 1 rollover not scoring on a consistent basis, and the worst is that sometimes the game stays on ball one for 2-3 balls and then works correctly. I am going to fix all the other issues and then play it alot, see if that doesn't work out the ball advance issue. If not I will adjust AX or BX again.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
€ 9.95
Playfield - Other
Multigame
$ 400.00
Boards
Great American Pinball
$ 60.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Mods for your pinballs
$ 36.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 20.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 17.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
BK Pinball
$ 16.95
Playfield - Protection
ULEKstore
$ 42.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 2.50
Playfield - Decals
Doc's Pinball Shop
$ 839.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 71.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
$ 5,799.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 46.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside