Upon pressing the start button score reels go back to zero but the score motor continues to run. In looking at the switch stacks, specifically 1C it appears all are gaped properly. In looking at the score reels it also appears they're working accordingly. Any further insight is much appreciated. By now means am I proficient "tech" so the more Dummies terms you can put it in .... more appreciated!

Also, need two new Tent Style Lane Guides, if anyone can tell me what was the original style used and part number? I've seen transparent white, opaque white and even other colors. I know it can be preference but looking for what was original and the part number.

Howard appreciate the post. Like always trying to help a local guy out here so the more possible scenarios anyone can provide the better as I will be heading back over his house this weekend to try and figure this out for him!

Ok so that's two suggesting the AX relay and yeah looking at the schematics, which I am not super proficient at, I do see it's the BL/OR wire. Of I'am looking at the schematics correctly this AX goes to 1D (BR/Red) on the Motor ????

Been a while since posting as been in and out of town but altos made arrangements with the owner to bring the machine to me. So now I have it in my possession I am trying to workout the issues.

1. The Score Motor continues to run after all score reels return to zero. I did find that the Brake Switch is broken off. I could swear though that I read somewhere the Brake Switch is not really needed????

2. The machine reflects TILT even after starting the games. Looking at the TILT mechs I am not seeing one out of wack!

3. No lights on the playfield at all!

Appreciate the input.

On a side note......this machine is super clean for its age!

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Thanks for the post Jay? Yeah I did find the one tilt switch (yellow arrow in picture) but not a second???

I also found an orange/white wire (red arrow) that is twisted together w/electric tape on it. Anyone w/ schematics know what this is for?

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As of now the TILT issue seems to be the major issue as I just turned the game on, pressed start and the score motor did stop. Game still reflects TILT and the playfiled lights are all out.

When I turn the machine on it's already in TILT mode. I can press Start and it will reset reels to zero and score motor is, now, stopping. However, at no time do the playfield lights come on.

If I move the H relay the TILT light goes off and pf lights come on.

Neither T or H are energized.

and I just found a solid yellow wire on the P relay is off!

As always Fred appreciate your input!

Interesting turn of events ...... I checked H, T and AX relays and nothing really jumped out. The switches were pretty damn clean but I cleaned them anyhow. I also attached the yellow wire back to the P relay. Game is now out of TILT, pf lights up and game is playing!

I think issue might have been related to the lugs being bent and possibly touching???

So I know the AX relay stays energized but is it common that it gets so hot? I mean hot enough you don't want to touch the metal housing/bracket?

BUT as we're aware once you fix one issue it typically brings new issues to light. I am now seeing these issues:
1. Game is not ending after 5 balls. It just keeps on going.
2. The Ball in play lights aren't work nor are the Player 1-4 lights (I pressed the Start 4 times).
3. The switches behind the rubbers as well as the switch in the shooter lane aren't registering.
4. When the ball goes into the kickout hole, the ball kicks out but the coil is firing 3 times after the ball is gone.

Didn't have a lot of time today to look at the machine but here's what I did find:

So according to the site you provided (thnx) AX should have 14.9 ohms....this is reflecting 3.1! Place on the order list!

Done and it is but game is still not stopping after 5 balls now will game add more then one player.

Done with no change.

For this I cleaned the Jones Plugs that go from the pf to the backbox .... switches now work!

I checked the switch in the kick out hole and it looked good so I cleaned it anyhow and I manually closed the switch and then held them apart. The kick out is still firing off 3 or so time too many. It would appear the issue is in the relay switch bank! I then looked at the G relay cleaned the switches and double checked the gapping to no avail. The one switch in the back I could not clean as it's too far back but those two wires are not related to the kick out. Thinking I am going to take the bank of switches apart and clean them really good, make sure they're gapped properly and ensure the lugs aren't touching anywhere. More to come on this on!

We'll do...thanks! I placed an order with PBR as I found 4 coils to be pretty fried and not having close to the correct resistance. I've been going through all the switches and cleaning them as well as checking the coils for proper resistance.

So over the next few days, while waiting for the PBR order, I will look into cleaning the plugs as well as checking everything you noted!

more to come

and one step ahead and 6 back .....

Replaced the bad coils for the relays. Took apart the score motor and cleaned all the gunk off the motor, cleaned all the switches and then properly gaped them. Went through all the switches on the relay banks and ensured they were properly gaped. Cleaned all the Jones plugs. Plugged machine in and turned on to find it in TILT and no lights on the pf, like before. Upon pressing the start button (has credits on it) ....... Nothing! I manually close the Start Relay ... nothing. I manually close the TILT relay and it does turn off the light behind TILT in the backglass and turns on the pf!

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I obtained schematics but no means am I proficient in reading them (understatement, I suck!). If I am correct the power to the score motor comes off the motor service jack (cleaned it up) and goes to the switch 1C bank? All switches were cleaned and gapped properly. I then looked at the switches on Start Relay (at this point all switches in the lower cabinet have been cleaned) and all switches are open when the coil is not energized and will be closed when coil is energized correct?

I apparently did something as the machine, if you recall, was working (had issues but was working) before I went in and started to clean all the switches!

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Appreciate to post and sharing the above URLs. In the tutorial it states "In this case you manually advance a 1-player game to the 5th ball". Excuse my ignorance but how do I go about getting the machine to the 5th ball?

THANKS AGAIN for the assistance!

Okay so I know this .... I am not getting power to the motor (Score Motor (SM)). What I did, since I only two hands, is took jumpers and hooked it up to a light socket with a bulb in it. Held it to 9v battery and the light comes on. So when I put the jumpers onto the lugs of the score motor and close the S Relay Switch nothing happens. So I moved to the S Relay Switch itself and clipped the jumpers onto the lugs of the switch and nothing. So it appears there's no power going to the switch itself so problem has to be further back then the Start Relay?

I also checked all the fuses on the board and they're good.

If it helps, the coils I replaced were H, Q, U an AX.

(after reading this post back I now realize I should've just attached the alligator clips to my meter )

Thanks for trying to help!

Ok so here in lies the issue as when I jump red/green (15a fuse block) to yellow/red (motor service jack) motor does not run. What am I missing here as I had to of knocked a switch out of wack or something when I went through all the switches on the relay banks and score motor and cleaned them as the Score Motor was working prior to this!
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So back to my original thought of something having to be obvious that I was missing .......
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So the red wire (red arrow) apparently came off at some point when I was cleaning all the switches! When I looked at the transformer visually checking it, it looked as though it was on the transformer but it was just sitting there not connected to anything! If I am correct the red wire goes to the second lug on the top of the transformer (circled in yellow)? Want to confirm so I don't cause more issues!

The lug marked High and Normal are reflecting around 22.9v. Hard to tell from the solder break as it was poorly soldered. Both lugs have remnants of solder in them.
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I did pull up a picture on IPDB https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2293&picno=74938&zoom=1 and it appears the red wire is on the second lug (NORMAL) but not the clearest picture!

Just found this so ...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-transformer-high-and-normal-tap

So technically you can use either lug.

So now I have the Score Motor working again. Also, I now have the Ball In Play lights (well at least the 1 is lit) and the Player 1 light is lit but its back in TILT. Can someone confirm that the tilt switches on the coin door, by the score motor, on the underside of the playfiled and the one in the backbox should all be closed and the tilt bob and the tilt mech with the pinball in it should be open and will put the machine in TILT only if the "switch" is closed? So 4 Tilt switches are closed and 2 are opened when the machine is operating??

The game started up, upon initially turning it on, but after starting up it went in and is stuck in TILT. I can't add credits to it or anything else.

So four slam tilt switches are closed. D59C8AF1-8949-40BB-BD57-7DD1BC460717 (resized).jpeg

Then the tilt bob
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Ok turned on machine again went straight into tilt. Looked at the fuses and noticed the 15a 25v fuse was blown (red/green). Replaced it and game started up, motor ran but all of a sudden all the lights on the pf starting going dim so I shut it off. Appears like something is either grounding out or maybe me putting the red wire onto the HIGH lug, I should've put on the NORMAL??

I swapped over to the NORMAL lug and once again the game will start but after I manually press a few switches the lights on the pf start to flicker/go dim.

Also noticed that when I hit the switch in the shooter lane it's not registering.

Howard thanks for jumping in. So now I am not in full TILT mod but obviously onto other issue(s).

Again guys, appreciate the posts and dumbing it down for me. I took this machine on as a something to clean and polish the pf up for the guy. I know it had an issue but wasn't thinking it would be this much! Find with the EMs once you fix one issue it uncovers 2 others! Trying to learn more about EMs so again .... thnx!

Okay went thru H and re-gapped the switches (contacts on switches were already cleaned). In doing this I did notice one switch wasn't really getting to an open position so re-gapped it.

I also noticed that on relay Q, U and AX a few of the lugs were bent over. I straightened all of these out.

So I turned the game on and pressed start and the game started but the Score Motor continues to run now.

So I decided to tear down the pf, the main reason for me taking on this project. Plan is to get the pf done in next day or two and then get back to Troubleshooting.

More to come and thanks for the help thus far!

PF cleaned up really nice!

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