Quoted from jaytrem:Damn, that look great!
Thanks! Amazing what Magic Eraser and polishes will do. Hard to believe it's an original playfield.
Now put it back together and try to work the bugs out. Weekend project!
(Topic ID: 276561)
Linked Games
Spirit of 76
Gottlieb, 1975
Topic Gallery
So need some schematic input. I found two wires hanging in the back box that appear to go to the switch (red box in picture) to relay F (00-90 Unit).
The wire with the green arrow appears to be orange/green and the yellow arrow is, really hard to tell, white/brown.
I am schematically challenge so if someone can advise? What’s the purpose to unsolder these?
EF9957FA-B4F1-486D-B320-91DB64C11586 (resized).jpeg
Boulder, CO
Quoted from HowardR:According to the schematic, the 00-90 relay (F) has 2 disks and no switches
[quoted image]
So check this out. The picture below is my back box.
When I go on IPDB https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2293&picno=63421&zoom=1 and look at the picture of the back box it doesn't show the mechanism that's in my game and that has an F sticker on it, signifying the F Relay.
F8C799D9-D054-454C-81E2-F2674C949183 (resized).jpeg
Also, I have the game all back together. when I power it up it's in TILT but when I press the start button the game will start up (score reels go to zero and all GI lights on pf are on) but after the score motor comes to a stop the game goes into TILT (GI goes out). While in tilt I can hear/feel that the 2nd Chute Relay (W) and 1st Ball Relay (U) are both energized.
Keep in mind at this point I have the pf lifted and am trying to test it that way. Just trying to give a picture of everything I am doing.
Power is getting to the tilt relay coil after the score motor stops. Referring to the photos in post #40, did you adjust the tilt switch with the orange/white/red wire and the red/yellow wire? This tilt switch needs to be in the normally open (NO) position.
Quoted from fredsmythson:Power is getting to the tilt relay coil after the score motor stops. Referring to the photos in post #40, did you adjust the tilt switch with the orange/white/red wire and the red/yellow wire? This tilt switch needs to be in the normally open (NO) position.
Thanks for the post fred! Starting to think that this machine is either an early prototype or a later production machine as I am finding stuff that doesn't match with the schematics as well as other So76 machines.
So you ask about the tilt switches with the " orange/white/red wire and the red/yellow wire" .... I don't see a o/w/r wire. This is what I am seeing .....
Tilt Switches, wire color and switch position:
Coin door Tilt Switch - red/white and slate blue - Closed
Tilt Bob - 2 orange/white wires - Open
Tilt ball - red/yellow and orange/white - Open
Tilt switch on bottom of cabinet - red/white and red/green - Closed
Playfield tilt switch - red/yellow and orange/white - Open
Back box - Black/white and Black/yellow - Closed
Any of the three tilt switches with the orange/white wire (schematic: orange/white/red wire) are the switches that send power to the tilt relay. All of these switches are normally open.
Any of the other switches that can tilt the machine by interrupting power, these switches are normally closed switches.
If the machine starts to reset and tilts, then there would be an issue with one of the normally open tilt switches. Check the tilt plumb bob plate, the ball tilt switch and the playfield tilt switch. Look for shorting at the switch/plate - wires touching, wire lugs touching, etc. You can also disable each switch/plate one at a time by removing the orange/white wire from the switch stack or plumb bob plate.
Example: Power off the machine, and desolder the orange/white wire from the ball tilt switch. Then power on the machine and reset the machine. If the machine doesn't go into tilt mode, then there would be an issue with the ball tilt switch. If the machine does go into tilt mode, then you would need to do the same test with the other tilt switch / plumb bob plate by desoldering the orange/white wire one at a time.
Quoted from fredsmythson:Any of the three tilt switches with the orange/white wire (schematic: orange/white/red wire) are the switches that send power to the tilt relay. All of these switches are normally open.
Any of the other switches that can tilt the machine by interrupting power, these switches are normally closed switches.
If the machine starts to reset and tilts, then there would be an issue with one of the normally open tilt switches. Check the tilt plumb bob plate, the ball tilt switch and the playfield tilt switch. Look for shorting at the switch/plate - wires touching, wire lugs touching, etc. You can also disable each switch/plate one at a time by removing the orange/white wire from the switch stack or plumb bob plate.
Example: Power off the machine, and desolder the orange/white wire from the ball tilt switch. Then power on the machine and reset the machine. If the machine doesn't go into tilt mode, then there would be an issue with the ball tilt switch. If the machine does go into tilt mode, then you would need to do the same test with the other tilt switch / plumb bob plate by desoldering the orange/white wire one at a time.
Thanks Fred....will work on after work today and report back this evening
Aarau
Hi meSz
Williams and Bally Pins handle the "Tilt" in another way. Please toggle-off Your Spirit of 76 - then watch the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay and toggle-on the Pin --- the H-Relay stays non-pulling. Then watch the H-Relay AND the AX-Reset-Control-Relay (look at both relays), press the Credit-Button / Start-Button --- hear the motor running, see the AX-Relay actuate - question-AAA: Do You also see the H-Relay actuate ? For a while the motor is running and both relays actuate - then the Reset-stuff comes to the end - motor stops and AX-Relay de-actuates - question-BBB: At that time the H-Relay quits pulling ? If You say "Question-AAA YES" and "Question-BBB YES": You have a problem "three-bladed Switch on H-Relay" - switch no good or wires to the switch no good, wire-RED-BLK, wire-RED-WH.
Toggle-off the Pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - inspect the only three-bladed Make-and-Brake-Switch on H-Relay --- manually actuate the relay - look, does close what wants to close (switch on H-Relay) ?
Logic of Operation in a fully running Pin - see the JPG: We toggle-on - no playfield-lights as the H-Relay does not pull (my "red E") - Tilt-Lite lit (my "red D"). We start a game - motor is made running, AX-Relay is actuated - switch "my green A" toggles - along "green line" Initial-Current flows to the Coil on H-Relay (my "green B") - H-Relay pulls, therefore moves all the switches - my "orange C" toggles and establishes Self-Hold-Current along "orange line" - then the AX-Relay can de-actuate and cut "green line" - no problem, along "orange line", thrown, toggled my "orange C Switch" the H-Relay stays pulling. Greetings Rolf
0Spirit76-Work-23 (resized).jpgQuoted from fredsmythson:Any of the three tilt switches with the orange/white wire (schematic: orange/white/red wire) are the switches that send power to the tilt relay. All of these switches are normally open.
Any of the other switches that can tilt the machine by interrupting power, these switches are normally closed switches.
Check
Quoted from fredsmythson:If the machine starts to reset and tilts,
Exactly what it's doing. SM turns and the score reels reset once the SM stops the game goes into tilt.
Quoted from fredsmythson:Check the tilt plumb bob plate, the ball tilt switch and the playfield tilt switch. Look for shorting at the switch/plate - wires touching, wire lugs touching, etc. You can also disable each switch/plate one at a time by removing the orange/white wire from the switch stack or plumb bob plate.
Example: Power off the machine, and desolder the orange/white wire from the ball tilt switch. Then power on the machine and reset the machine. If the machine doesn't go into tilt mode, then there would be an issue with the ball tilt switch. If the machine does go into tilt mode, then you would need to do the same test with the other tilt switch / plumb bob plate by desoldering the orange/white wire one at a time.
Followed this (thanks for simplifying it) to no avail! 
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Williams and Bally Pins handle the "Tilt" in another way. Please toggle-off Your Spirit of 76 - then watch the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay and toggle-on the Pin --- the H-Relay stays non-pulling.
Correct, H is not pulling (energized). Q and U are
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Then watch the H-Relay AND the AX-Reset-Control-Relay (look at both relays), press the Credit-Button / Start-Button --- hear the motor running, see the AX-Relay actuate - question-AAA: Do You also see the H-Relay actuate ? For a while the motor is running and both relays actuate - then the Reset-stuff comes to the end - motor stops and AX-Relay de-actuates
Correct, once I press Start, AX and H energize. Once SM stops and game goes into tilt both AX and H release.
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:If You say "Question-AAA YES" and "Question-BBB YES": You have a problem "three-bladed Switch on H-Relay" - switch no good or wires to the switch no good, wire-RED-BLK, wire-RED-WH.
Okay so I got to this point and I believe the issue was the screw holding the switch stack for H. The top screw was a fraction longer then the bottom. When I would manually press the stack I could see the gapping was correct but when the coil was energizing and drawing in the switch stack it wasnt doing as hard as i was manually so the gapping wasnt cprrect. I switched the two screws around and I am now out of TILT mode
So resolve one issue and it uncovers others.
The first is ....
On PLAYER ONE score the 10 unit coil is getting smoking (literally) hot. When I was hitting switches I did notice the reel would stick sometimes. Off hand anyone know what switches all score 10 points on this machine? Will start looking to see if a switch is stuck closed.
Need to start looking at this issue now and whatever comes next.
More to come!
Again, thank you guys for the post! I need to get this machine done by next Wednesday so I'll be posting back often.
A coil (solenoid) on a score reel that is constantly being energized on and off will get very hot. During normally game operation the 10 point score reel solenoid will get hot. But, the score reel solenoid should not be constantly energized or "stuck on." If the solenoid was actually "smoking," it has been damaged and it will need to be replaced.
Gottlieb machines in this era had grease applied to the score reel mechanism at the factory. Over time, this grease becomes gummy/sticky and creates havoc with the operation of the score reels. The correct way to solve this issue is to take apart the score reel unit, clean off all the old grease, sparingly apply new lubrication and then reassemble the score reel. It's time consuming when you have to do this on 16 score reel units, but well worth the effort.
The mini-stepper looks like it might be the F relay disc (00-90 unit) that is part of the number match feature.
Quoted from fredsmythson:A coil (solenoid) on a score reel that is constantly being energized on and off will get very hot. During normally game operation the 10 point score reel solenoid will get hot. But, the score reel solenoid should not be constantly energized or "stuck on." If the solenoid was actually "smoking," it has been damaged and it will need to be replaced.
Will replace
Quoted from fredsmythson:Gottlieb machines in this era had grease applied to the score reel mechanism at the factory. Over time, this grease becomes gummy/sticky and creates havoc with the operation of the score reels. The correct way to solve this issue is to take apart the score reel unit, clean off all the old grease, sparingly apply new lubrication and then reassemble the score reel. It's time consuming when you have to do this on 16 score reel units, but well worth the effort.
One step ahead as I have already taken it apart and soaking it. If you anyone cleans the machine use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J035OKE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title
This stuff is a great noncorrosive cleaner. For the most part I just toss the parts in to a bin with this stuff and hot water. It comes out VERY clean.
Quoted from fredsmythson:The mini-stepper looks like it might be the F relay disc (00-90 unit) that is part of the number match feature.
Okay I am on the same page as you as it does have a F sticker on the coil bracket. Any idea as to how it's to be wired? Two wires are off.
Out of curiosity was this something added to later run machines as pictures I have found online of this machine don't show this stepper unit in them.
Hi meSz
I also believe the Mini-Stepper You show in post-56 is the F-Relay, 00-90 Unit, No-Match-Unit. In the "New York" Version of "Spirit of 76" we see this stepper https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1673&picno=54694&zoom=1 (on the right, up). Operators could order the pin with or without this unit.
One side (bakelite plate) of the F-Relay in Your pin has wires for the Number-Match-Lites - here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1802&picno=9583 we see on top of the Backglass "50" lit - when the pin comes to Game-Over - do the players get an replay (?) Check the wires in Your pin with "my first JPG, colors of wires".
See my second JPG - the wiring for to give such No-Match-Replays - check the wires in Your pin with "my second JPG, colors of wires".
A little trick to make visible the lights all the time - see the first JPG, permanent set Jumper-Wire. Please toggle-off the Pin, unplug the main Power Cord, wear rubber Gloves (Safety Reasons) --- set the permanent wire USING SIDE OF FUSEHOLDER 6VAC, WIRE-BLK-RED SOLDERED ON !!! (We want to have a fuse in all our circuitry).
But You have an severe problem - the Coil on Player-1-Score-Drum - ONLY let it happen for a couple of seconds - then toggle-off the main power switch. Question: When it comes to the fault - does the N-10-Point-Relay (most likely mounted in the Backbox) faulty constantly pulls ? Greetings Rolf
0Spirit76-Work-24 (resized).jpg0Spirit76-Work-25 (resized).jpgI was trying to figure out where those loose wires would attach near the F relay. I don't have the full schematic for Spirit of 76 , so I was working off a
Royal Flush schematic. The Royal Flush schematic shows the F relay has 2 normally open switches and 2 discs:
2A, 2 Disc 00-90 Unit Relay
Going back to HowardR 's post at post #55, the Spirit of 76 schematic shows the F relay has only 2 discs:
2 Disc 00-90 Unit Relay
Can you see any F relay switches on the Spirit of 76 schematic? On Royal Flush there is one 25 volt F switch at 8E on the schematic, and a 6 volt F switch at 3B on the schematic.
So, it seems like your F relay is matching up with the Royal Flush schematic, and I figured out where some of the wires attach. But, if the Spirit of 76 does not have a leaf switch on the F relay, then that makes this a bit confusing.
On the Royal Flush schematic, the F relay switches are part of the 6 volt/24 volt circuit for the playfield special kickout hole.
Does it look like the F relay had been replaced at some point? On the F relay, does the leaf switch have 2 normally open switches? Does it look like one of the wire lugs are missing from the switch stack on the F relay switches?
As rolf_martin_062 mentioned, different machines had different versions of the F relay. Could the F relay on your machine be a replacement and it was originally from a different machine?
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Hi meSz
I also believe the Mini-Stepper You show in post-56 is the F-Relay, 00-90 Unit, No-Match-Unit. In the "New York" Version of "Spirit of 76" we see this stepper https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1673&picno=54694&zoom=1 (on the right, up). Operators could order the pin with or without this unit.
One side (bakelite plate) of the F-Relay in Your pin has wires for the Number-Match-Lites - here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1802&picno=9583 we see on top of the Backglass "50" lit - when the pin comes to Game-Over - do the players get an replay (?) Check the wires in Your pin with "my first JPG, colors of wires".
See my second JPG - the wiring for to give such No-Match-Replays - check the wires in Your pin with "my second JPG, colors of wires".
A little trick to make visible the lights all the time - see the first JPG, permanent set Jumper-Wire. Please toggle-off the Pin, unplug the main Power Cord, wear rubber Gloves (Safety Reasons) --- set the permanent wire USING SIDE OF FUSEHOLDER 6VAC, WIRE-BLK-RED SOLDERED ON !!! (We want to have a fuse in all our circuitry).
But You have an severe problem - the Coil on Player-1-Score-Drum - ONLY let it happen for a couple of seconds - then toggle-off the main power switch. Question: When it comes to the fault - does the N-10-Point-Relay (most likely mounted in the Backbox) faulty constantly pulls ? Greetings Rolf
[quoted image][quoted image]
Greetings from the States and thanks for posting. Will start looking at the stuff you pointed out and make post as I find info.
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Check the wires in Your pin with "my first JPG, colors of wires".
See my second JPG - the wiring for to give such No-Match-Replays - check the wires in Your pin with "my second JPG, colors of wires".
Yes, the left side of the stepper, which is same side as the switch missing the two wires (orange/white and orange/green, there’s actually two o/g wires but the one is connected), is the side the wire color matches your schematic in first JPEG (pic below). The right side of the stepper unit wire color matches your second JPEG.
88655AFD-B247-494D-90B6-64DA7483799E (resized).jpeg
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:But You have an severe problem - the Coil on Player-1-Score-Drum - ONLY let it happen for a couple of seconds - then toggle-off the main power switch. Question: When it comes to the fault - does the N-10-Point-Relay (most likely mounted in the Backbox) faulty constantly pulls ? Greetings Rolf
No BUT the M Relay is. It's pretty dirty so taking it apart to clean it.
I didn't see any F switches on the Spirit of 76 schematic. Looking at the photo of the F relay, maybe someone added the switch to the relay. The wire lugs on the switch stack look like they never been used - they look too clean. And one of the switch stack mounting screws is damaged, which tells us someone was maybe trying to install/remove the switch...
Quoted from fredsmythson:I didn't see any F switches on the Spirit of 76 schematic. Looking at the photo of the F relay, maybe someone added the switch to the relay. The wire lugs on the switch stack look like they never been used - they look too clean. And one of the switch stack mounting screws is damaged, which tells us someone was maybe trying to install/remove the switch...
No the switches both have mounting brackets so it doesn't appear to be something added. The lugs have solder on them, someone certainly removed the wires.
Below picture shows where the two wires in question go too. They attach to the 10 pin Jones Plug in the back box. Second picture I highlighted the Stepper unit and the jones plug. You can see the two wires in question were just stringed up and not part of the harness itself.
FACFD9DB-3D44-45E9-ACAA-66BE4153FD79 (resized).jpeg9AB70202-CAF3-41E8-AB1B-3C9D71DA0FFA (resized).jpeg
To Rolf's point, if this stepper unit was something the dist could add it makes sense as to why the wiring is not tied into the harnesses and looks like an add-on.
Referencing those two wires, are the same color wires attached to the male connector of the Jones plug? If so, can you trace the wires to the main cabinet to see where they go?
Hi fredsmythson
lucky us You did choose to look in the schematics of Royal Flush, thanks for post-67 and post-70.
Hi meSz
so we know now for sure You do have such an F-Relay (Gottlieb AS Relay Stepper) - from Your pictures I do not know - is Your F-Relay-Stepper plugged-in ?
Go to here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#emsteppersvideo then scroll upwards 4 pictures - see the picture with TWO Jones Plugs ? Scroll up a bit - title: Gottlieb's AS Relay (The Miniature Stepper). And then read that article ...
In post-71 You show a picture with two red arrows - does this means You have soldered-on the "two wires in question" ? How do You know they belong to the lugs You have them soldered-on ?
I brood about N-Relay, M-Relay - what actually is / are problems in Your pin - what is us talking philosophy ? Greetings Rolf
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:so we know now for sure You do have such an F-Relay (Gottlieb AS Relay Stepper) - from Your pictures I do not know - is Your F-Relay-Stepper plugged-in ?
See pic. You can see the two Jones plugs are plugged in (Note: in the one picture that shows the 10 pin Jones Plug not plugged in, I unplugged it so you all could see where the wires were attached too.). Will check on other stuff you n Fred advise shortly (work getting in the way of pinball 
)
6ADC5BEA-CFE1-40EB-8CDF-00A9FB3BA6EA (resized).jpeg
Also wanted to point out, the one wire that IS attached to the switch in question goes to the 8 pin Jones plug (pic below). So maybe Fred is right that this switch is added??? I also don’t see switches on the pictures in the link Rolf provided.
3C3FFB93-D58B-4070-8EB5-9A40D0D44876 (resized).jpeg
Also, want to correct color of wires:
The O/G and W/Br are the two wires that come from the 10 pin Jones plug and aren’t attached to the switch (dangling).
The wire that IS connected to the lug (switch) and comes from the 8 pin Jones plug is Green/Orange (not O/G as previously stated).
Hi meSz
this post is just a bit of theory --- in another topic (other problems) I made a post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1975-williams-little-chief-coin-up-problems#post-5957686 --- O.K. it s about Williams-Mini-Stepper. But Williams and Gottlieb Mini-Steppers are much alike. In the mentioned post: First picture is a Mini-Stepper having a Switch - not having bakelite plates - ONLY used step, step, step, step ... and on every second step a switch is closed (otherwise switch is open) - it is a Williams-Alternator-Unit for "TWO coins needed (thrown-in) for to start a Game". The second Picture is an Williams pure / only No-Match-Stepper - only having the two bakelite plates (one for the Lights in the Backglass - one for to give such No-Match-Replays, This second picture: NO Switch mounted. The third Picture is Williams-No-Match-Stepper WITH Switch (as the Gtb Royal Flush also has one - and as You do have mounted in Your pin) - "green-1" is to hinder "turning backwards" - "green-2" is for to step the unit --- below "green-3" is hard to see a gear to lift on every second step the "green-4" blade to make contact to "green-5" blade (closing and opening the Switch). And the last picture is from Parts-Book --- see the switch "green N" - it sits on top of the "green 5, green dashes". And Gtb Royal Flush has the "green only-1 in the lower left corner in the picture". Greetings Rolf
Hi meSz
look here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2293&picno=74927&zoom=1 middle of Bottom of picture - sockets for Jones-Plugs for to connect Backbox with Cabinet and maybe Playfield. Are the (still mysterious to me) two wires from there - Jones-Plug-Connection to Cabinet, maybe Playfield ? Greetings Rolf
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Hi meSz
look here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2293&picno=74927&zoom=1 middle of Bottom of picture - sockets for Jones-Plugs for to connect Backbox with Cabinet and maybe Playfield. Are the (still mysterious to me) two wires from there - Jones-Plug-Connection to Cabinet, maybe Playfield ? Greetings Rolf
Yeah maybe. Too fred's post I am going to follow the wires to the Jones plugs and then follow them from the Jones plug and see where they go to. It's just after 1pm here so will be posting a lot more later today once I am finished with work.
THANKS AGAIN!
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Hi meSz
You wait for to start "working on the pin" - here in Switzerland (south of Germany) it is time to go to sleep (hour 22:18). Greetings Rolf
Set your alarm for 02:00 
I will have stuff posted for when you wake up! Until then Fred is only 2 hours ahead of me. I will bug him
seriously, thanks for help guys! Pinside can be a lot of drama at times but this is one thing that is such a positive thing about it!
Quoted from fredsmythson:I was trying to figure out where those loose wires would attach near the F relay. I don't have the full schematic for Spirit of 76 , so I was working off a Royal Flush schematic. The Royal Flush schematic shows the F relay has 2 normally open switches and 2 discs:
2A, 2 Disc 00-90 Unit Relay
Going back to howardr 's post at post #55, the Spirit of 76 schematic shows the F relay has only 2 discs:
2 Disc 00-90 Unit Relay
Can you see any F relay switches on the Spirit of 76 schematic? On Royal Flush there is one 25 volt F switch at 8E on the schematic, and a 6 volt F switch at 3B on the schematic.
Fred first of all, apologies as somehow I really didn't address the post 67 of yours. . .
Below is a picture of the schematic and I boxed in section 8E of Sof76 schematics. I am not seeing reference to the F relay but again I am not proficient in schematic reading. Below that is section 3B.
106FF750-D144-4765-B4A0-518BD8CD2F3A (resized).jpeg
45C801F2-18C7-48B4-A1D2-57F1D0E557A3 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from fredsmythson:Does it look like the F relay had been replaced at some point?
No it doesn't!
Quoted from fredsmythson:On the F relay, does the leaf switch have 2 normally open switches?
No, one open and one closed. (picture of switch below)
1D8A222D-115E-4502-AA45-98F0C3D4CCB8 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from fredsmythson:Does it look like one of the wire lugs are missing from the switch stack on the F relay switches?
Not at all. All intact and actually in good condition.
Quoted from fredsmythson:As rolf_martin_062 mentioned, different machines had different versions of the F relay. Could the F relay on your machine be a replacement and it was originally from a different machine?
Anything is possible. Keep in mind it's not my machine and the owner of it doesn't know a lot about pinball and bought the machine from a guy he bought his house from (the old we dont want to move the machine with us so....)
Quoted from fredsmythson:Referencing those two wires, are the same color wires attached to the male connector of the Jones plug? If so, can you trace the wires to the main cabinet to see where they go?
So this is where it gets a little stranger. I followed the White/Brown wire, it connects to the Red/White wire on the Jones plug and that R/W wire goes to a switch on the 2nd Chute Relay (W). BUT the Orange/Green wire coming from the Stepper Unit over to the Jones plug is soldered to the only lug, out of the 10, that doesn't have a wire. So this appears to be tied into nothing (see last picture in post 74)?
Below is a few more pictures of the stepper unit.
9E295664-4246-4435-8BFA-D834E5762C13 (resized).jpeg94E6D95A-CA34-4E20-BBA8-150A824B5058 (resized).jpeg
We've all been focusing on the stepper unit but want to try and focus more on the machine itself. Don't get me wrong as I want to get all aspects of the game working but getting it to work is first priority.
Back to the machine itself. When I start the game it starts up as normal. But the M relay (M) is staying energized. We touched on this before but my mistake as I previously said it was the 10 point. Forgot that this machine does not have a 1 point relay so it starts at 10 point (N). The M relay has been taken apart. cleaned and is properly gapped but it's still staying energized so something is sending power to it.
This is the whole cause of that coil burning up previously!
I checked, I believe, all of the 100 Point switches (9 of them) on the pf and all are gapped properly.
Yes, I don't see any F switches on the Spirit of 76 schematic. The photos of the backbox on IPDB are from a sample game / pre-production game and the F relay is located on a relay bracket bank on the side of the interior in the backbox. I guess they relocated the F relay near the credit unit on the production games. I'm still not sure what that switch is for - maybe a custom modification by a previous owner or operator.
The M relay is the 100 point relay. Most of the circuits that feed the M relay coil have multiple switches. A few of the circuits have one open switch. Can you post a photo of the section on the schematic that shows the M relay?
Quoted from fredsmythson:Yes, I don't see any F switches on the Spirit of 76 schematic. The photos of the backbox on IPDB are from a sample game / pre-production game and the F relay is located on a relay bracket bank on the side of the interior in the backbox. I guess they relocated the F relay near the credit unit on the production games. I'm still not sure what that switch is for - maybe a custom modification by a previous owner or operator.
Yeah I’m starting to think it was added after the fact BUT this game appears to never have been on location. It’s so clean it’s ridiculous. Again, would like to fix it but can do without it.
Quoted from fredsmythson:The M relay is the 100 point relay. Most of the circuits that feed the M relay coil have multiple switches. A few of the circuits have one open switch. Can you post a photo of the section on the schematic that shows the M relay?
Let me know if you can blow this up and see it good enuff to read.
94929384-67B9-4569-979B-B9CE14B2B9C4 (resized).jpeg
There's about ten different circuits that can send power to the M relay coil. I'd first look at the simple circuits to see if a switch is mis-adjusted. Check the following:
A relay switch - orange/black wire and yellow/blue/red wire
B relay switch - orange/black wire and blue/white wire (for a 5 ball game)
C relay switch - orange/black wire and yellow/blue/red wire
These are all normally open switches. Make sure they are clean and adjusted properly. If they check out okay, then try to recreate the issue again where the M relay coil is constantly energized. Then look at the above switches - are any of those switches closed when the M relay coil is energized?
Hi
I stay with the No.-Match-Unit (F-Relay, Ministepper, AS-Relay). Good that fredsmythson looked into the schematics of Royal Flush --- in there is stuff I like to see - look in the JPG: When we reach Game-Over we may be awarded with an Replay (every participating Player) - when the "10s" on the Score-Drums match with the shown Number on the Backglass.
To conceal how the Number is created in the pin: Making 10 Points make the F-Relay to step AND hitting the bumper ALSO.
And then (stuff to come) I look in the schematics of Spirit of 76 - and I am not pleased. Greetings Rolf
0Spirit76-Work-26 (resized).jpgHi meSz
this post is about the faulty constantly pulling M-100-Point-Relay. You toggle-on the pin and start a Game - resetting stuff - the Ball is kicked over to the Shooter Alley and NOW the M-Relay faulty pulls forever - You toggle-off the pin - Question: Does the 100-Point-Score-Drum of Player-1 now steps to showing "100" ("1") ? - it should.
I take the idea of fredsmythson - blow up a bit - please start a game ... the M-Relay faulty pulls forever - hurry up - https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2293&picno=74913 on the playfield make all the "A", "B", "C", "D", "E" lighted - stuff worth now 500 Points - Question: Does the M-Relay quits faulty pulling (((and maybe the D-500-Points-plus-Bonus does faulty endlessly pulls))) ?
Hmm, I look at Your picture in post-49 - goooood lucking playfield - but You have taken away MANY switches - have them mounted so all switches are open when pin is at rest ? Greetings Rolf
Quoted from fredsmythson:There's about ten different circuits that can send power to the M relay coil. I'd first look at the simple circuits to see if a switch is mis-adjusted. Check the following:
A relay switch - orange/black wire and yellow/blue/red wire
B relay switch - orange/black wire and blue/white wire (for a 5 ball game)
C relay switch - orange/black wire and yellow/blue/red wire
These are all normally open switches. Make sure they are clean and adjusted properly. If they check out okay, then try to recreate the issue again where the M relay coil is constantly energized. Then look at the above switches - are any of those switches closed when the M relay coil is energized?
A relay is gapped and cleaned.
as for B and C, correct me if I am wrong .....
B relay is going to be the switched on the right and left pop bumpers (o/blk and w/blu)?
C relay is going to be the center pop bumper (o//blk and y/blu/r)?
F97B767B-2CEC-4165-982D-0765ACF48598 (resized).jpegHi meSz
did You try what I wrote in post-86 --- making the fault happen - then quickly make all the "A", "B", "C", "D", "E" - https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2293&picno=5604 - question: Does the M-Relay now quits pulling ? Greetings Rolf
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:You toggle-on the pin and start a Game - resetting stuff - the Ball is kicked over to the Shooter Alley and NOW the M-Relay faulty pulls forever - You toggle-off the pin - Question: Does the 100-Point-Score-Drum of Player-1 now steps to showing "100" ("1") ? - it should.
Yes but actually it's showing 200 points. So it scored 100 upon the ball coming into the shooter lane and jumped to 200 and is trying to go to 300 but this is where the 100 reel pulls forever.
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:did You try what I wrote in post-86 --- making the fault happen - then quickly make all the "A", "B", "C", "D", "E" - question: Does the M-Relay now quits pulling ?
Yes i tried and the M is still pulling so obviously I have a 100 point switch or more that's closed somewhere.
Ok so after last post started to relook at the switches under the pf and found the culprit. One of the rollover switches was closed. Readjusted and 100 reel no longer constantly pulling. 
Now onto the next issues.
1. I am not seeing ball in play lit up (I know bulbs are good). Along with this .... the game is not recognizing balls draining. In other words the game continues on and on, never coming to an end.
2. Next issue may impact the first issue, the shooter lane switch doesn't register.
3. When the ball drains the drop targets do not reset.
4. Flippers super weak. (starting to look at this now)
1. I am not seeing ball in play lit up ---
The ball in play lights are controlled by the player unit. Does the player unit rotate when you start a game? Can you manually advance the player unit - does it rotate smoothly and "click" into each position?
4. Flippers super weak ---
A common problem causing a weak flipper is a mis-adjusted EOS switch and/or a worn out EOS switch contact. Check the EOS switches for adjustments and dirty/worn switch contacts.
Hi meSz
I do not remember having played the Spirit of 76 in the Arcade-Times - I look at the schematics - Your "Shooter Lane Switch (post-90)" I believe to be "Runway Switch" - only action is "When You made an "Extraball" - then the I-Extraball-Relay is made to quit pulling when You launch the given Extraball. Greetings Rolf
Quoted from fredsmythson:1. I am not seeing ball in play lit up ---
The ball in play lights are controlled by the player unit. Does the player unit rotate when you start a game? Can you manually advance the player unit - does it rotate smoothly and "click" into each position?
Yes to all. Not sure why but I turned the machine off then back on. Started a game and manually activated the player unit to make it appear as if it was/is switching players. The Ball in Play lights (1-5) are working now????
BUT, when I go to play a game and drain the ball, the ball shoots out into the shooter lane and the Ball In Play still reflects 1. So the game is not advancing to Bally 2 and so on.
Quoted from fredsmythson:4. Flippers super weak ---
A common problem causing a weak flipper is a mis-adjusted EOS switch and/or a worn out EOS switch contact. Check the EOS switches for adjustments and dirty/worn switch contacts.
Exactly the case here. The EOS was not gapped properly. Flippers now working as they should.
DT still not resetting after ball drains but this it probably tied to the first issue where the game is not advancing to Ball 2 so it doesn't reset the targets.
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Hi meSz
I do not remember having played the Spirit of 76 in the Arcade-Times - I look at the schematics - Your "Shooter Lane Switch (post-90)" I believe to be "Runway Switch" - only action is "When You made an "Extraball" - then the I-Extraball-Relay is made to quit pulling when You launch the given Extraball. Greetings Rolf
Very good to know Rolf! So that switch has one purposes and if you never get an extra ball it never comes into play!
Hi meSz
to Your problem "when the first ball played is lost - it then does not step to Ball-2" / "Drop Targets do not reset" I show an JPG*** - I have not finished yet the JPG*** - it actually is / will come to F-Relay stepping, Player-Unit-Stepping and resetting Score-Drums when starting a new game.
Well, Your problem "not stepping" - see my added "pink text U-Relay I-Relay" --- for to step to Ball-2 the U-Relay MUST be pulling, closing its Switch --- the I-Relay must be non-pulling so its switch is closed - see the Switches in the JPG*** just above my pink text ?
Want to practice telling "stuff happening when we start a new game - when it comes to stepping the Player-Unit - Resetting Score-Drums - stepping the Player-Unit to its Home-Position ? I have not finished yet my numbering, my text - I came to "stepped by 'lightgreen-16' until the switches 'darkblue-14, -15' open". Can You walk through my numbering in the JPG*** and tell whats happening ?
Again - in Switzerland it is time to go to sleep. Greetings Rolf
0Spirit76-Work-27 (resized).jpgQuoted from rolf_martin_062:Hi meSz
to Your problem "when the first ball played is lost - it then does not step to Ball-2" / "Drop Targets do not reset" I show an JPG*** - I have not finished yet the JPG*** - it actually is / will come to F-Relay stepping, Player-Unit-Stepping and resetting Score-Drums when starting a new game.
Well, Your problem "not stepping" - see my added "pink text U-Relay I-Relay" --- for to step to Ball-2 the U-Relay MUST be pulling, closing its Switch --- the I-Relay must be non-pulling so its switch is closed - see the Switches in the JPG*** just above my pink text ?
Want to practice telling "stuff happening when we start a new game - when it comes to stepping the Player-Unit - Resetting Score-Drums - stepping the Player-Unit to its Home-Position ? I have not finished yet my numbering, my text - I came to "stepped by 'lightgreen-16' until the switches 'darkblue-14, -15' open". Can You walk through my numbering in the JPG*** and tell whats happening ?
Again - in Switzerland it is time to go to sleep. Greetings Rolf
[quoted image]
Apologies Rolf as not entirely sure what you're asking me. Are you asking me once I start a game is the switch with the w/Blk wire on the U relay open and the I relay switch with the sl/y wire closed when I start a game?
For an incomplete reset process: Confirm the ball is fully seated in the outhole and that the outhole switch is clean and adjusted properly. Does the player unit rotate during the reset process?
Take a look at the operating instructions / start up sequence to see where the reset process stops:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-spirit-of-76-#post-5831989
Quoted from fredsmythson:For an incomplete reset process: Confirm the ball is fully seated in the outhole and that the outhole switch is clean and adjusted properly. Does the player unit rotate during the reset process?
Ball is fully seated and switch is cleaned and gapped properly.
As for the Player unit, when I press the Start Button I hear a click and the rollover relay bank engages but then game stops. The game never comes out of GAME OVER mod.
Quoted from fredsmythson:Take a look at the operating instructions / start up sequence to see where the reset process stops:
Looking into this next.
Hi meSz
I am irritated - post-97 through post-99 - has the problem arised "can not start a new game" ?
IF (if, if) "Yes" --- when having problems on Start-Up before doing an test I like to bring the pin (somewhat, close to) in state "an actual game has been played - the pin then was toggled-off". So toggle-off the pin (unplug main power cord - Safety Reasons) go to the Backbox, manually put some Points on the Score-Drums of Player-1, see in my JPG "my green line" - do manually step the Player-Unit --- watch the fifth nylon cam - there is ONLY one tooth on the cam --- step many steps (up to about forty steps - a bit more than a revolution - as You must see it) - see in a step You do: You see that the only tooth on the fifth cam lift its switchstack - the Player-Unit now is in the so called Home-Position - then do about 6 more steps.
(((The steel Ratchet on the Player-Unit has 30 Teeth - so the Unit has 30 different Positions - I want You to reach Home-Position (which also is called Pos-ZERO, which is also Pos-Player-1-plays-Ball-1) and then about 6 more steps to get the pin into state "was in play".
Then go to the front of the pin, Playfield lifted - plug-in - NOW look at U-First-Ball-Relay and Q-Game-Over-Relay - You toggle-on the pin - question: Do U-Relay and Q-Relay pull-in, stay pulling ? Then You press the Start-Button - what happens ? Greetings Rolf
0Sp76-Player-Unit-Home-Position (resized).jpgPromoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
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