(Topic ID: 302265)

Gottlieb Spider Man help

By ElbowRoom

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 11 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by ElbowRoom
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Ok, first off let me say that I'm mostly a classic vid guy and the only (wanna be)pin I've ever had was a Baby Pac, lol. That said, my brother picked up a non-working Gottlieb Spider Man about a year ago and it promptly got buried in his garage. A couple of weeks ago he dug it out and I've been trying to get it working for him. I've read through the System 80 PinWiki and searched for threads on System 80 troubleshooting. Here's a list of what I've done so far:

Pin was dead to begin with - would not boot. A few lights on the backboard would come on.

Rebuilt power supply - all voltages good now.
MPU had some slight damage from the Data Sentry battery that was still on the board. It looked like there were some sloppy repairs done at some point as well, so instead of fighting it, I purchased a Rottendog System 80 MPU and installed it.
Repinned the CPU/driverboard interconnect harness and added two wires per the pinwiki.
Replaced the edge connector on the bottom of the driver board.
Cleaned all the card edge pads on the driver board and sound board.
Cleaned all the single edge connectors on the harness. I can't find a source for these connectors or I would replace them. Any suggestions?
Did the ground mods.

After all this... still not working, lol. It seems like maybe a grounding issue.

The sound board is dead. I've verified the proper voltages but it does nothing. Pressing the test switch (with the dips set opposite) results in no sound (speaker is known good). But, I can do the sound board after I get the rest working reliably. When you turn it on, most of the time it will start to boot, then the player one display will flash "63 2" or sometimes "22 2"... occasionally it will go to all zeros, then it will allow me to coin it up and start a game - the ball will kick out into the shooter lane and you can shoot it, but none of the playfield lights are on and the flippers do not work. I've checked and the tilt relay and game over relay both energize as soon as the power is turned on and never go off. If I manually pull the tilt relay down, the playfield lights start working. The slam switch on the coin door is closed, the ball roll switch is closed, and the tilt pendulum is centered (not touching) - so why is the tilt relay on? One thing I've noticed is that when I'm able to coin it up if I press the start button with the coin door open it does nothing - if I close the coin door the start button will work and kick the ball into the shooter lane. I've checked the harness and none of the wires are pinched, but maybe when the door is closed it creates a better ground?

Sorry for the lengthy run on post. I think I've covered everything so far, but at this point my brain is a bit fried. Any help or other suggestions on things to check would be greatly appreciated.

Greg Williams

#2 2 years ago

A divide and conquer method is required here.

You already swapped out the MPU and repaired the PS.

Next would be to ensure the driver board is solid, by installing it in a known working game. Usually, 1-4 transistors on the driver board have failed. It is somewhat rare for the 74175s on the board to fail. the big can 2N3055s sometimes fail causing obvious burn marks on the driver board.

Just guesses...
The driver board isn't operating the tilt relay correctly either due to a faulty connector or a failed transistor.

The sound board test button sometimes works and sometimes doesn't on these old boards. Seems odd, I know. But that is the way it is.

If you need help with board repair, drop me a PM.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#3 2 years ago

Thank you Chris. Unfortunately I do not know anyone who has a System 80 Gottlieb (in order to test the driver board). I'll pull the driver board and check the transistors with my dmm. I visually inspected the board when I did the ground mod and noticed that the board is discolored around the can transistors, but did not seem to be damaged - but I did not check them.

I did discover that the harness by the coin door did indeed have some broken wires, even though visually it looked fine. I unwrapped the protective plastic, and sure enough there were 4 wires that looked like they had been cut (ground wire, start button, coin and a lamp wire). I repaired these and that has fixed my issue with the start button working with the coin door open. It worries me that the harness in this game seems "brittle" for lack a a better word.

Would the driver board contribute to the game not booting? It will not consistently boot (if I power on/off several times, occasionally it will display zeros and seem to be in attract mode, other than the tilt relay being on). It will usually show "63 2", or "22 2" in the player one display. I really need to repin or replace the one sided edge connectors, but I cannot find any replacements for these. I try to cut down some solder eyelet jamma connectors that I have on hand (for vids) and carefully use those - at least I would be certain that the connection was solid.

Thanks again, I'll post an update when I have one.

#4 2 years ago

Pulled the driver board and checked all the transistors with my dmm per the guide on pinwiki. I found 1 MPS U45 that was bad - the one at Q3 (which controls the coin lockout coil). I was really hoping that the one at Q2 would be bad, since that is the tilt relay, but no dice. Is there any way to check the 74175s? The one at location Z1 is the one that is tied to the tilt relay. There are a couple of 74175s on my original main board that I'm thinking of pulling and swapping into the driver board...

#5 2 years ago

You can diode test the 74175.
Meter on diode check.
Red on lower left pin.
Black on all other pins, one at a time.
The reading should be between .4 and .8 for most pins.
If you find a short, that is definitely an issue.
If you find an odd reading, compare with the same pins on another 74175..
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#6 2 years ago

If you ground the tab of Q2, does the tilt relay energize?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#7 2 years ago

I'll check the 74145s and report back, thanks. As for grounding the tab of Q2, I'm not sure what you mean... the tilt relay is constantly energized when the game is on. If I ground it should it release?

#8 2 years ago

74175s all checked good. I was searching the internet last night and came across the internet archive of the system 80 portion of This Old Pinballs repair guide. I decided to start over with my diagnostics following the procedure outlined there. After verifying the power supply is working correctly (5.20 vdc) you plug in just the cpu board using only the power connector J1. The power and reset leds light on the Rottendog board and checking the test points gives 5.20 vdc at the board. The next step is to plug in the score display connectors (J2/J3) and upon power up they should be strobing and showing zeros. Now I'm suspecting that there may be an issue with my new Rottendog MPU, as it will not consistently do that - maybe twice out of ten power ups will the displays show zeros with some mild strobing. The rest of the time the first display will show "62 2", or "22 2" for a few seconds, then go blank. Does anyone have any info on Rottendog system 80 replacement boards? I'm not sure if the reset led should be on constantly like it is. I've emailed Rottendog, but they are very slow to respond. I will try to reseat all of the socketed chips to see if that helps anything.

#9 2 years ago

I think Rottendog sold their shop to Big Daddy. The new owners are working feverishly to integrate the boards and improve board reliability. Not sure where they are on that huge project. There’s another string around here that talks about it in depth. Search Rottendog owners or sold.

#10 2 years ago

Thanks Bill. I'll check that out. I believe I've fixed the issue with the board not booting - I reseated all the socketed chips and on three of them I cleaned the legs since they all seemed tarnished, even though they should be new. After this, the board is booting to show zeros on the display consistently (no more odd number combos). The tilt relay is still energizing immediately on power up though. I keep thinking it's got something to do with the slam switch, as the displays always have a faint strobing going on. I actually cut the slam switch wires at the coin door and soldered them together to eliminate the switch itself, but the harness is so flakey that I'm thinking it may have an issue elsewhere. I've metered one wire from the slam switch all the way to the boards and its fine - the other wire branches off and goes to the playfield so I need to trace that one. I should look at the schematics and follow the path that way I guess. I feel like I'm almost there... I get to the point where I'm ready to throw in the towel and then I'll have a small breakthrough and it motivates me to keep going, ha ha.

1 week later
#11 2 years ago

Well, I officially gave up and sent the boards to Chris for testing/repair... The Rottendog MPU started acting up again and luckily the vendor I bought it from agreed to refund me, so I sent the original board to Chris to see if it's repairable (battery damage as well as previous shoddy repair work). I'll post back here with an update when I have one.

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