(Topic ID: 262873)

Gottlieb system 1 display troubles

By Willillist

4 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Quench
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    #1 4 years ago

    Hi All,

    Been revamping a 1979 Gottlieb Solar ride and I have got everything working with one weird exception my displays when I first turn the game in will not function properly they wait the five seconds to come on but when they do it’s all zeros even when you add a credit it will register the credit but still show zeros on the display. It will also start a game but have crazy flickering and no legible score but go thru a game and goto game over no problem. If I leave the game on for five mins or so and walk away and come back and turn the game off then on the displays are fine. As crazy as it sounds it seems like something needs to warm up. I have a new power supply installed with proper voltages I also repinned all the connectors and did ground mods for the CPU, power supply and the driver board and I jumped the cap on the cpu that closes the slam switch as my displays have that look to them like it’s the slam switch error.Anyone have this issue happen to them or any ideas in where I should look next??

    #2 4 years ago

    Bueller, Bueller????

    #3 4 years ago

    I had also installed a memory cap instead of batteries could this be causing the issue? I doubt it but I’m pretty damn stumped on this and the memory cap is holding high scores once the game “warms up”it shows that last high score no problem....

    #4 4 years ago

    Not sure this applies to your problems but over time those Gottlieb displays run down and need a recharge,

    Here is a video that shows how to easily do this.

    #5 4 years ago

    I’m not sure if this helps, but I dropped a Flippp PI-1/X4 into my System 1 and totally recommend it.

    Give this a read: http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1

    The info there is invaluable.

    #6 4 years ago

    This looks familiar if I read your message right...

    5F20C3AC-0DDD-4B11-8EA0-E193A2411B29 (resized).jpeg5F20C3AC-0DDD-4B11-8EA0-E193A2411B29 (resized).jpeg
    #7 4 years ago
    Quoted from desiArnez:

    I’m not sure if this helps, but I dropped a Flippp PI-1/X4 into my System 1 and totally recommend it.
    Give this a read: http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1
    The info there is invaluable.

    I wouldn't automatically default to replacing the board if everything is pretty much working as is.

    First I would try recharching the displays. Each display only needs a few seconds.

    Second, check all the voltages for the displays and make sure there isn't something that is significantly low.

    In certain instances, one malfunctioning display can affect all the other displays, so also be sure to test each display one at a time to see if you can figure out if there is one causing a problem. Note: only plug/unplug displays when the power to the game is off, or various chips will be destroyed.

    #8 4 years ago
    Quoted from desiArnez:

    I’m not sure if this helps, but I dropped a Flippp PI-1/X4 into my System 1 and totally recommend it.
    Give this a read: http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1
    The info there is invaluable.

    I would much rather get this game repaired than put in an aftermarket repairing them is half the fun although maybe not so much when I’m stumped like this lol.

    #9 4 years ago
    Quoted from desiArnez:

    This looks familiar if I read your message right...[quoted image]

    I have tried this and it makes no difference but I appreciate the help any ideas I’m willing to try for sure.

    #10 4 years ago

    I would take one display at a time and rotate them in the machine and out (power off each time) to see if the problem goes away on any one display. You could also replace R1 resistor (10k ohm, 1/2 Watt, 5% resistor) on each. Pinwiki has a voltage chart to check the UDN6118 chips. If all the displays do this individually and no change when you check each one individually then I would start looking at the board or connectors. Even with the new PS you should still use pinwiki and check voltages: "As stated above, the displays need several sources of voltage to function properly. The display voltages used are broken down by the type of display: +60VDC, +8VDC offset, and 5VAC are used for the 6-digit displays; +42VDC, +4VDC offset, +5VDC logic (for the 7432 chip - Z1), and 3VAC are used for the 4-digit status display. When using a 6 digit display with DI513 Dionics chips, +5VDC is necessary for RP1 and RP2 8.2K resistor networks. If any of the above voltages are missing, the display will never light. "

    #11 4 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I wouldn't automatically default to replacing the board if everything is pretty much working as is.
    First I would try recharching the displays. Each display only needs a few seconds.
    Second, check all the voltages for the displays and make sure there isn't something that is significantly low.
    In certain instances, one malfunctioning display can affect all the other displays, so also be sure to test each display one at a time to see if you can figure out if there is one causing a problem. Note: only plug/unplug displays when the power to the game is off, or various chips will be destroyed.

    I agree that I do not want to replace the CPU it is a fixable for sure just a matter of figuring out what it needs as for voltages even when the displays are not coming on the proper voltage is there after staying on for five mins or so I power off then on and boom it’s perfect. As for recharging the displays they are super bright so I see no need to recharge them other than brightness there is no benefit to recharging correct?

    #12 4 years ago

    I tried to make a video to explain what’s going on a little better and to actually show you it’s a little long but it will show you what I mean.

    #13 4 years ago
    Quoted from slghokie:

    I would take one display at a time and rotate them in the machine and out (power off each time) to see if the problem goes away on any one display. You could also replace R1 resistor (10k ohm, 1/2 Watt, 5% resistor) on each. Pinwiki has a voltage chart to check the UDN6118 chips. If all the displays do this individually and no change when you check each one individually then I would start looking at the board or connectors. Even with the new PS you should still use pinwiki and check voltages: "As stated above, the displays need several sources of voltage to function properly. The display voltages used are broken down by the type of display: +60VDC, +8VDC offset, and 5VAC are used for the 6-digit displays; +42VDC, +4VDC offset, +5VDC logic (for the 7432 chip - Z1), and 3VAC are used for the 4-digit status display. When using a 6 digit display with DI513 Dionics chips, +5VDC is necessary for RP1 and RP2 8.2K resistor networks. If any of the above voltages are missing, the display will never light. "

    I did swap displays around and try each one separately to no avail.. I have t checked voltages on at the resistors yet I will give that a try tomorrow if you could check the video I made and see if you have any other thoughts any help is greatly appreciated.

    #14 4 years ago

    Ok so over the weekend I was able to get another cpu here that is working and discovered my problem lies in my cpu so It’s time to hit pinwiki and research the cpu side of the displays any thoughts on what I should check first???

    #15 4 years ago

    Desperate don’t want to have to get another cpu bump....

    #16 4 years ago

    Did you clean the edge connector contacts with a pink rubber eraser? Grime on the PCB contacts will cause issues.

    If you have a spare MPU, swapping that in might be able to tell you if it's an MPU issue or not.

    If you haven't done so already, try replacing C16, C17, and C20--the three electrolytic caps on the left side of the MPU. I'm not sure if it will make a difference, but it's worth a shot.

    Next, I might try replacing the electrolytic caps on the displays just to rule those out.

    Then finally, look at the segment logic on the MPU. Check to make sure that the chips involved don't have cracked solder joints on the legs. Then, maybe try to figure out if there's a bad chip somewhere. If any have visible cracks or other physical damage to the chip's body, replace them.

    #17 4 years ago
    Quoted from Willillist:

    As for recharging the displays they are super bright so I see no need to recharge them other than brightness there is no benefit to recharging correct?

    Yeah, bright displays don't need to be recharged. Yours appear plenty bright, and shouldn't need recharging.

    #18 4 years ago

    Since it looks like a thermal problem, wait for the game to warm up to working order.
    Grab an ice cube from the freezer and put it in a thin watertight plastic bag, or even better use some electronic freeze spray if you've got it.
    With the game working, switch it off. Hold the bagged ice cube against a chip on the MPU board for about 10 seconds. Power on.
    Repeat the process moving from one chip to another until the problem hopefully re-occurs.
    Start with the display controller chip at U6, then move to the supporting display logic chips after it (Z11 through to Z21).

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