(Topic ID: 291432)

Gottlieb Slick Chick - Help Needed

By megoman

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by baldtwit
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There are 55 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

I’m helping my cousin out with a Slick Chick game that he picked up recently. Game was listed as fully working.

He asked me to look it over. Of course everything was not working and there was an incorrect set of rubbers on the game (no rubbers around the non pop letter bumpers).
Fixed some things and did a full contact cleaning on the game. During the cleaning I also checked all switches to make sure the were contacting correctly.

Upon turning the game back on, I’ve now got a few challenges:

1) the credit-up relay is constantly firing 3 pulses

and

2) the score motor keeps spinning

Clearly there is a switch or two out of whack and I’m having trouble identifying the culprit.

Any help in resolving would be greatly appreciated

#2 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

1) the credit-up relay is constantly firing 3 pulses

I don't see a "credit-up relay" on the schematic.

Quoted from megoman:

2) the score motor keeps spinning

Which one(s) of these switches or relays is keeping the motor running?

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#3 2 years ago

Stuck coin switch on the coin door, remove the coin mechs and ensure the switches are not closing. If the fish paper is missing it will short through the trip wire.

If you are unsure, disconnect door all together and i can tell you what to jumper past to get game playing..

#4 2 years ago

Thank you both for the feedback.

Howard
On schematic I believe what I referred to as credit up (adds credits ) is the Add Replay Unit in the schematic (location D-9)

I see that Motor line in the schematic and will check those switches.

Pinhead52
I did muck with the switches on the door (first time working on old Gottlieb so checking everything out) so I’ll check for a closed coin switch.

Heading out of town in the morning so won’t get back to this until later in the week. I’ll update you on status once I’ve had a chance to review.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

the credit-up relay is constantly firing 3 pulses

Sounds like you mean relay W. When the game is misbehaving, look at W and see if it is staying on. For further confirmation, you can change the adjustment from 3 games per coin to 4 games per coin and see if you get 4 steps in each cycle.
.................David Marston

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from dmarston:

Sounds like you mean relay W. When the game is misbehaving, look at W and see if it is staying on. For further confirmation, you can change the adjustment from 3 games per coin to 4 games per coin and see if you get 4 steps in each cycle.
.................David Marston

yes indeed. always the coin switch

#7 2 years ago

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Back home and got to look at game today.

Per David’s suggestion I moved the 25 cent chute adjustment to the other positions (4 and 5) and it changed the number of credit pulses accordingly. Side note - with no selection made it defaulted to 3).

Checked switches on coin door and all of the contacts were forced together. Someone set game to free play and I’m guessing this is part of how they accomplished. I unmangled and put all back in proper place (see photo).

Then checked switches on the Add/Subtract stepper unit. The “add” switches were all smooshed together. I unmangled and put all in proper place (see photo).

When I activated the coin switch it added 3 credits and then the motor kept spinning.

Howard suggested I check switches on motor line per the schematic (D,W,A,DB,Z,O). Unfortunately not all the relays are labeled. Attached are 2 photos showing what is not labeled (forward 3 relays in cabinet and the bank of replays under playfield). Would appreciate if someone could help me identify.

If I block the switch on the Add/Subtract step unit it stops the add 3 credits, but the motor continues to spin.

Based on what I’ve now described if someone Has further suggestions let me know. Reading schematics is not my strong suit which makes it difficult to problem solve.

And finally - 2 stray labels found in game. If you know where the go let me know.

Thanks again

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#8 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

Howard suggested I check switches on motor line per the schematic (D,W,A,DB,Z,O). Unfortunately not all the relays are labeled. Attached are 2 photos showing what is not labeled (forward 3 relays in cabinet and the bank of replays under playfield). Would appreciate if someone could help me identify.

The schematic identifies all of the wire colors which should help you identify the relays with missing labels. In @howardr's schematic above for example the R relay coil has a black wire on one solder lug and a red-white wire on the other solder lug. Most coils will have one black wire but the other wire is likely to be unique to each relay coil.

The wire colors on the schematic will also help you identify specific switches once you've found the relays. The schematic above shows that all of the switches that can run the Score Motor connect a slate-black wire to a red-white wire, because they're wired in parallel.

/Mark

#9 2 years ago

Combining the above suggestions: find relay W and look for the switch on W that has slate-black and red-white on its two blades. Is that switch always closed? Or is there some other electrical bridge across it, like the solder tabs touching?

If you have a "flexstone" switch point cleaner, you can stick it between the points as an insulator. I sometimes do that when I find the motor turning continuously, to see if I can cut off the motor (which will still run to its home position).
.................David Marston

#10 2 years ago

Thanks for the feedback.

Here is the latest

I’ve identified the relays with the exception of the playboard bank ... don’t know which end of the bank relay 1B is on (when playfield is lifted is it at the top or bottom of bank)?

As previously mention the game was in free play accomplished by smushing all the 25 cent contact together and same for contacts on Add Replay (credit unit). I’m sure something else was done, but not sure what.

Now, when I manuall engage the 25 cent switch, the motor spins 1/4 turn, the W relay activates and then nothing.

Not sure what to do next?

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

Thanks for the feedback.
Here is the latest
I’ve identified the relays with the exception of the playboard bank ... don’t know which end of the bank relay 1B is on (when playfield is lifted is it at the top or bottom of bank)?
As previously mention the game was in free play accomplished by smushing all the 25 cent contact together and same for contacts on Add Replay (credit unit). I’m sure something else was done, but not sure what.
Now, when I manuall engage the 25 cent switch, the motor spins 1/4 turn, the W relay activates and then nothing.
Not sure what to do next?

If you google; IPDB Slick Chick you will access the game photos. Look at the sample game bottom board and you will see the bank showing the relay 1B.

If you do not have labels for this game I have made them all and send to people gratis. Pm me and list an email address and I will send to you all the labels to print plus instructions for the game.

Steve J

#12 2 years ago

Thanks Steve. Found the under playfield relay numbers on IPDB per your suggestion. Also sent PM regarding the label templates.

Still need assistance per my last update as game is not powering up after the 1/4 motor turn and W relay pulse. It seems as if Gabe is not turned in after the 25 cent switch activation on the coin door.

Much appreciated!

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

game is not powering up after the 1/4 motor turn and W relay pulse.

Not sure what you mean by W relay pulse. Does it only pulse while the 25 cent switch is closed or does it stay on while the Score Motor turns through 1/3 turn?

When the 25 cent switch closes the W relay should fire which sends 120 volts into the transformer (unless the game has already been powered up). Once the transformer is powered up the R relay (red-white and black wires on the coil lugs) should fire and stay on as long as there's power to the transformer.

A normally open switch on the W relay closes when the relay fires which sends power to the Score Motor as shown in @howardr's schematic. The Score Motor should run through 1/3 turn and at the very end the W relay should relax just before the motor stops. What to look for next depends on whether the R relay fires.

Beware that the 25 cent switch, the W relay and related circuits are all running at 120 volts. If you don't have a correctly installed polarized plug on this game (which wouldn't have come on it originally) there could be 120 volts running around even when the game is off. I'd recommend unplugging the game while you poke around looking for issues, and using a wooden dowel or something similar to activate switches when the game is plugged in.

#14 2 years ago

Thanks Mark. Good explanation. Let me clarify.

When I engage the 25 cent switch (I push the wire with a wooden down and release), the W relay closes. Simultaneously the R relay closes and the score motor turns 1/3. When the score motor stops both the W and R relays open.

Per your note I think the R relay is supposed to stay closed (schematic has relay on line activating with just power) and this is not happening.

What I did next was manually close the R relay (using wooden dowel so no ☠️☠️☠️) and hold it. This caused the score motor to turn and it just keeps spinning.

If I hold the 25 cent switch, the W (keeps adding 3 credits) + R relays stay closed and the score motor just keeps spinning.

While looking around I just found two loose wires (color = brown + yellow) that have electric tape on the bottom of the main wire bundle (see photo). Based on length of wires the only place these wires could reach is lower portion of score motor position 4. Don’t know what these wires are including whether they were taken off as part of prior free play set-up?

Next???

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#15 2 years ago

I think the 25 cent switch should only wake up the game (if it doesn't already have power) and add 3-5 credits with the help of the Score Motor to the replay unit. That's it. It doesn't start a new game.

Once the R relay (in red) fires, it should close a switch (in red) to keep the 120 volts connected to the transformer. Sounds like that's not happening so have a close look at that switch (red wire to black wire) with the game unplugged.
Slick Chick R relay (resized).jpgSlick Chick R relay (resized).jpg
To start a game you need to press the Replay Button or close the Coin Chute switch which should trip the SB relay in the trip relay bank and start the reset sequence.

#16 2 years ago

Thanks for chunking it down Mark. My schematic reading skills are fair at best which makes understanding the actions and sequencing especially challenging.

Clear that the 25 cent chute only adds credits (through activating W relay) and does not start a game.

Also, activating the 25 cent switch does “wake” the game as you indicated (R relay closes).

Game has no on/off switch. Upon plug in nothing happens (no lights). At this point if I manually engage the R relay the game lights up. I would think game should light up upon plug in ... correct? Would this be because the R relay closes?

So now game is awake and I add credits through coin chute switch, but when I push the Replay button, NOTHING - ☹️

Next action should be Start Relay (SB), but it is not firing. The schematic shows all of these after the Replay Button - motor 1C / Zero Replay Unit / W / On Ball Release as “conditions” needed to activate the Start Relay. Can you explain what is supposed to happen for each.

As a reminder, the game was working when I first picked up (Push Replay and new game started). Not everything was working 100% so I cleaned all the contacts on the game and that’s when these latest issues started.

Really appreciate all the help

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

Upon plug in nothing happens (no lights).

That's right. Nothing happens. That's the expected behavior.

Look at the schematic. There's no way for power to get to the transformer until a coin is dropped or the Replay button is pushed. Either the W relay switch or the SB relay switch on the left side of the schematic needs to close first to connect the transformer to power. The R relay fires once the transformer gets power and closes its switch to keep the power coming, but it doesn't supply the initial power.

Quoted from megoman:

Next action should be Start Relay (SB), but it is not firing. The schematic shows all of these after the Replay Button - motor 1C / Zero Replay Unit / W / On Ball Release as “conditions” needed to activate the Start Relay.

If you can find and close the Coin switch (presumably on the other coin chute) that skips the Replay button, Motor 1C and Credit Unit Zero switches leaving just three other switches that should already be closed (don't forget the switch on the SB relay). If the Coin switch starts a game but the Replay button doesn't you know that the issue is not in the part of the SB relay circuit that is shared with the Coin switch path.

Quoted from megoman:

the game was working when I first picked up (Push Replay and new game started). Not everything was working 100% so I cleaned all the contacts on the game and that’s when these latest issues started.

Sadly that's a common mistake. Unless you're restoring the game from the ground up it's usually safer to clean just a few switches, then check that things still work, then clean a few more. Better yet, don't clean any switches unless you're chasing a specific problem. Properly adjusted switches are self cleaning and don't need to be cleaned regularly.

1 month later
#18 2 years ago

Was able to make some headway at the last EM repair clinic (thanks Mark). There was an issue with a switch on the W relay that was causing the problem.

Game now working,but not fully. Next issues I’m trying to resolve are the top left rollover + left target and center target are not working. I see these are controlled by the B and D relays, but the schematic show multiple lines for how these relays are activated and I’m having trouble following. Photo of that part of schematic pasted below.

Any help in resolving would be greatly appreciated.

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#19 2 years ago

Is the A relay pulling in when these targets are hit?

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

Next issues I’m trying to resolve are the top left rollover + left target and center target are not working. I see these are controlled by the B and D relays, but the schematic show multiple lines for how these relays are activated and I’m having trouble following.

generally you are trying to follow a closed path from the switch you care about left to a coil.

the center target switch is easiest ... all paths are blocked by an open switch except thru motor 1E and the D relay switch to the A coil as daveh said. Center target should power the A relay.

left top R.O. and left target are crammed in and of course the R.O. switch makes an except to the "go left", but for both the only closed path winds up at the D relay coil. Either of those switches should power the D relay.

when the switches don't work, close them with your finger on the bottom of the playfield. If that doesn't work, it's one of:
- coil is bad
- plug connection (if any) is bad
- switch is exceptionally cruddy
- your red/white wire connection back to the transformer is open someplace. There may be a switch in that circuit, often on the tilt relay. However, if other stuff like the right R.O. / target and pop bumpers work, then red/white wire probably ok, but it could have a bad solder joint or the wire has broken off an attach point. How the wire physically daisy chains around between attach points isn't necessarily the order it appears on the schem.

you can use a voltmeter with one probe on the black wire on any coil and the other poke along the circuit path looking for where the 25V disappears when you are holding/jumpering the playfield switch closed.

you can also use a jumper wire with one end on the red/white wire and touch the other end to any place along the path to the coil. When the coil powers, you know the circuit works from that point to the coil.

4 weeks later
#21 2 years ago

Thanks to all (including Mark and the Pinside Pinball Clinic team) for your continued support as I try to work through the issues on this game.

Coming out of last pinball clinic all was pointing to the leaf switch on the D relay that powers the score motor (bottom inside switch - slate w/black.

Checked the voltages and there is no power being fed to the score motor when the D relay is activated.

D relay - 4 open / 1 closed switch
3 switches top row

2 switches bottom row
-inside switch goes to score motor
Wire to motor - slate w/black
Incoming wire - yellow w red+ green

-outside switch has incoming 29 volt
2 wires in one leaf - orange w/white (???)

So 29 volts are available to the set of leaf switches, but the transfer of these 29 volts to the switch powering the score motorcis not happing.

This is that set of yellow w/red + green wires - there are 2 same color wires on the leaf. One wire looks like it goes to the A Relay which’s works correctly.

How do I figure out why the 29 volts are not coming through that yellow w/red + green wire - Which when activated will share those 29 volts with other leaf (slate w/black wire) and fire the score motor.

Attached are 2 photos showing the upper and lower sets of switches + wires.

Can someone send me a photo of the D relay wiring in a working game (want to be sure it’s wired correctly).

Also, someone prior added a permanent jump wire from the 29 volt “hot” leaf to one of the top switches (see photo). No idea why this was done???

Thoughts on any / all of this. Thanks!

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#22 2 years ago

I referred to incoming volt wire colors on leafs going to score motor as yellow w/red + green.

I think correct color is yellow w/red + blue.

What feeds this wire with 29 volts?

#23 2 years ago

pics from a bit further back is better ... they are high enough res people can zoom in, and seeing the entire relay helps.

your wiring doesn't appear to agree with the schem I have, but it's a little hard to tell for sure.

the schem says the relay should have the following switches:

- NO : GR to WH-SL : the hold switch for the relay (schem F4). Should be the switch with the odd extra blade and no wire on one blade

- NO : YEL-BL-RED to BLK & RED : one way to power the M relay (schem E7)

- NO : BLK-RED to BLK & RED : in pop bumper sequence relay circuits (schem H-6). BLK & RED is same wire as above switch, so probably a bare wire connecting the two blades.

Note BLK & RED has about equal amounts of the colors, while BLK-RED is mostly black with a red tracer. Red may look pink/white due to fading. Gottlieb later used BLK + RED instead of BLK & RED.

- NO : SL-BLK to RED-WH : score motor power circuit. RED-WH wire is the same wire that's on the 10A fuse, but it could look different if it faded more/less.

- NC : YEL to WH-GR : in circuit to A relay (schem E4). That looks right on your relay.

if nobody posts a pic, I'll take one of the D relay on monday night and post it tuesday morning.

the bare jumper is probably factory, but the wrong wires are on the blades it's jumping together.

you can't really poke the circuits with a voltmeter and see what has 25V and what doesn't. The game is wired with one side of the 25V loads (coils, score motor) all connected to the black wire from the transformer, and all the rest of the circuits are getting the red-yellow wire from the transformer connected to the other side of the load to power it.

if you have one meter probe on the black wire, you will see 25V in many places if you randomly poke circuits. Specifically, you'll see 25V on pretty much every switch on the D relay at one time or another ... depends on what other switches are doing. You have to look at the schem to see what wire matters for the circuit you are debugging.

oh, and you are getting 29V because either the hi-tap is being used on the transformer (if there is one), and/or because the schem was drawn assuming 110V or 115V and you have 120V, so the voltages are proportionally higher. It's normal.

#24 2 years ago

Thanks so much for the detailed response.

So as next step I need to validate if the switches on the relay are wired correctly.
Very kind to offer to post a pic for Tues unless someone else can send.

I took 2 addt’l pics a little further back per your suggestion. Hope they are more helpful. If any clarity should still be needed regarding how the relay is wired let me know.

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#25 2 years ago

when there's two stacks of switches, it helps to stick a big piece of paper between the two stacks and attached wires so it's easy to see which wires are connected to the blades ... if possible. The bare wire may make that harder.

in any case, looks like you need to swap the two double-wires with red arrows below.

the lower red arrow is pointing to the RED-WH wire, and that is supposed to connect to the SL-BLK when the relay is powered.

you don't need to wait for verification if you don't want to ... even if I got it wrong, nothing will blow up. It just won't work in a different way

swap (resized).jpgswap (resized).jpg

#26 2 years ago

So swap the orange w/white and the yellows w/red+blue wire.

Once complete the orange w/white will share the same leaf switch as the slate gray w/black wire that feeds the score motor.

Thanks for tip on photographing switches with multi layers. Makes perfect sense.

Here are pdated photos of the layers. Will wait for feedback if anything on the top row needs to be moved. Also need feedback on the jump wire.

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#27 2 years ago

Here are the five switches and wire colors (all in red) from the schematic:
Slick Chick D relay switches (resized).jpgSlick Chick D relay switches (resized).jpg

#28 2 years ago

Thanks Mark

Question ... the screenshot you posted is from an on-line schematic. Where are you getting these from and is it free or subscription based?

———————————————————-
So I swapped those 2 wires on the bottom switches and the 3 targets + 2 rollovers that spot Slick/Chick/Slick Chick are working correctly and driving correct actions.

Many thanks for the help in sorting this.

Still need confirmation the 3 top switches are wired correctly and also the jump wire.

Next issue
After Slick + Chick are completed, the playfield bank should reset (the letter lights back on). This is not happening.

On the schematic (H13) is the Reset Sequence Bank coil. This is activated by the motor (at start of game // with new ball???) or the J relay (Advance Unit relay).

The J relay is on the schematic at E4.
Would appreciate some help deciphering what should be happening once a full Slick Chick has been scored

I added the schematic areas referenced from photos (hence why I asked Mark where his pics are coming from)

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#29 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

So I swapped those 2 wires on the bottom switches and the 3 targets + 2 rollovers that spot Slick/Chick/Slick Chick are working correctly and driving correct actions.

Kudos to @baldtwit. I don't usually look for rewiring.

Quoted from megoman:

After Slick + Chick are completed, the playfield bank should reset (the letter lights back on). This is not happening.
On the schematic (H13) is the Reset Sequence Bank coil. This is activated by the motor (at start of game // with new ball???) or the J relay (Advance Unit relay).

You've pretty much described what should happen.
Slick Chick J relay (resized).jpgSlick Chick J relay (resized).jpg
Since you have to get the letters in each word in order, you're not done until the K in Slick (relay 5B) and the other K in Chick (relay 9B) have tripped. Once that happens the path to the J relay is complete and it should fire which in turn should fire the Add Advance Unit.

The schematics I use are either from IPDB or from my own files. You can get a scan done for a few bucks at your favorite big box office store. A good scan is much more helpful than photos.

#30 2 years ago

Thanks Mark

So for the J relay that should be getting activated should I be looking at the switches for 5B + 9B or is there something else ... a switch on B relay or score motor 1C to resolve?

#31 2 years ago

All four switches need to close. The B and Motor 1C switches should be normally closed but they could be the problem. Jumper around the switches to find the culprit(s).

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from megoman:

Will wait for feedback if anything on the top row needs to be moved. Also need feedback on the jump wire.

below is the tall stack and two pics where you can see the factory bare wire on the BLK & RED jumping to another blade. Sorry I was kinda lazy and didn't unscrew the relay and turn it over for a direct pic of the short switch stack.

swapping the two wires is correct and everything is factory once you did that.

mark has ya covered on the rest, so I'm going to go ponder why it took me an hour to get 4 screws into coil stops on a 1954 Big Ben last night ...
slick chick reset relay (resized).jpgslick chick reset relay (resized).jpgslick chick reset relay3 (resized).jpgslick chick reset relay3 (resized).jpgslick chick reset relay2 (resized).jpgslick chick reset relay2 (resized).jpg

4 weeks later
#33 2 years ago

Hope this note find everyone well

Just realizing that I had started to type a further update (culprit was make/break switch on the B relay), but never sent it. Sorry.

After that I ended up on hiatus for a few weeks. Just picked up again late last week and got GREAT help on Friday’s pinball clinic (thanks again Mark + co).

Game was playing 95% and I had direction for the final few fixes. Took care of them this evening (everything should now be working correctly) including a check of the knocker coil. Had to take playfield off for proper access. When done reconnected Jones plugs, plugged in power cord, hit start button and nothing. Tried to manually engaged the Hold relay (R) and nothing.

Clearly no power going anywhere. Checked fuses and all are good. Checked the cheat, shutoff, and bounce switches and they seem correct.

Nothing changed other then removing the playfield and reconnecting the Jones plugs. When nothing worked, pulled out and reconnected the Jones plugs again.

I’m sure the fix is something simple. Many thanks in advance for the help.

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#34 2 years ago

got a voltmeter?

I'd set it so you can measure 120VAC and put one probe on the white wire on the power cord/transformer and poke along the circuit with the other probe looking for where the 120V disappears.

1 month later
#35 2 years ago

Hope this note find everyone well.

Slick Chick game is doing well. As the game has gotten more activity, a few small things popped up that need tending to.

The latest is that intermittently, when the first Slick Chick is completed, the advance unit is not firing and hence lighting the first rollover light.

The operative word here is intermitten and through various ways of completing the first Slick Chick (rollovers, targets, individual letters)

In those instances when a first Slick Chick is NOT firing the advance unit, the second Slick Chick ALWAYS fires the advance unit and lights the first rollover. All subsequent Slick Chicks fire the advance unit and rollover lights.

Seems like this issue would have something to do with relays that control the letters. Relays 5B and 9B are for the two letter K’s either of which could be the last letter to complete Slick Chick. The switches on these two relays seem to be OK so not sure what else could be causing issue.

Feedback, thoughts, suggestions welcome.

Thanks

#36 2 years ago

Intermittent problems can be the most difficult because you're never sure if you fixed it and they can't usually be tested. The good news is that they almost always get better or worse.

In this case, if the Sequence bank is resetting then we know that the Advance Unit relay (j) is firing, so the most likely cause is this switch

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#37 2 years ago

J Relay
I know that relay has been touched before. Will check again.
Thanks

#38 2 years ago

The game now resides at my cousin’s house and I just got to check it out this weekend.

Got good understanding of the 5B + 9B relays triggering the J relay which in turn fires the advance unit.

Check and cleaned switches in J relay. Each time I manually engaged this relay it fired the Advance Unit. So the relay functions correctly.

Checked the Advance unit. Each time I manually engaged the add plunger the unit worked correctly. Not gummed up in any way so all seemed good.

Checked the 5B and 9B relays. I actually screwed the unit from the playfield bottom so I could clean all the contacts and make sure all switches actioning correctly. Once reattached, I cycled through Slick Chick many times (and in various ways) and carefully watched what was was happening with the 5B + 9 B relays, the J relay and the “add” coil on the Advance Unit.

My observation is that in some instances the J relay doesn’t seem to be getting full power when activated by the closing of the 5B + 9 B relays. The J relay does engage though not fully and in turn sends a weak signal to the add coil.

Again this is intermitten. Most of the time the J unit properly fires and the Advance Unit steps up correctly. All the wires appear well connected and all these relays.

Not sure what could be causing the weak charge to the J relay. Some of you have been fixing games a long time so hopefully you can help get me to a solution.

Thanks

#39 2 years ago

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#40 2 years ago

Clear on how the switches work

The J coil ALWAYS fires once 5B and 9B relays are closed. Not clear on next steps to try and resolve the intermitten issue?

Thanks

#41 2 years ago

In the schematic snippet you just posted, there is that parallel circuit with 2 switches in it - the N/O "J" switch and the N/C "On Add Advance Unit" switch. If your J relay isn't holding, maybe you have some sort of issue in that circuit. Maybe the J switch is closing too late, and/or the "On Add Advance Unit" switch is opening a little bit early. Make sure the contacts are clean and making good contact.

#42 2 years ago

If J is firing but sometimes not holding, as paulace says, the problem is in this circuit:

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#43 2 years ago

Thanks for the input.

So I’m clear does “in the circuit” mean the problem is caused by one or more of the following

- dirty contacts
- misaligned switches
- bad solder connections

and the resolution typically resides by correcting the above?

#44 2 years ago

Usually the cause is a switch that's adjusted so wide that it never closes (makes contact), or so narrow that it never opens.
But otherwise, yes.

1 week later
#45 2 years ago

Wanted to close the loop on this.

Went to my cousin’s house today and resolved the issue. The culprit was a switch in the lower stack.

Many thanks again to all for the help

1 month later
#46 2 years ago

Reviving this thread.

My cousin told me he’s having an issue with Slick Chick … something about the K in Chick not working correctly.

Went there yesterday. What I found was the K relay was not always resetting when the bank reset coil fired.

I made sure the bank coil + armature were operating smoothly (took apart and did some cleaning). I did see some wear (indent) on the reset bar where the reset armature makes contacts with it.

Digging further I found the Bank reset behaving different depending on how the Slick Chick was completed.

When completed from hitting any of the targets / rollovers the reset was always completed correctly.

However, when the reset happened after getting letters (K is the last letter) the result was a “weak” bank reset with the last K relay not resetting.

In this instance it seems the bank reset coil is not getting fully powered by that last K. This seems similar to the prior issue (first Slick Chick was not always registering - weak pulse to advance relay - switch was misadjusted in lower stack)

This issue also likely one misadjusted switch, but question is which one.

Thanks for the help

#47 2 years ago

except during reset, only a J relay switch with RED and WH-OR-BLK wires powers the sequence bank reset coil.

make sure that switch closes quickly relative to other J relay switches, and also check switches in highlighted circuit below. Sounds like J is not powering long enough depending on how it's powered initially.

you want the "on add advance unit" switch to open as late as possible relative to the switch pulsing the sequence bank reset coil.

if the bank has the wing nuts to allow flipping the switches back, make sure the bracket is seated all the way into the notches before tightening the nuts ... but if that's an issue you'd see a problem regardless of how J gets powered.

slick (resized).pngslick (resized).png

#48 2 years ago

Thanks for the feedback. Will head back to my cousins tomorrow to check the relays and switches mention.

More to follow after my visit

#49 2 years ago

At my cousins and been fooling around with the 3 switches on the J relay and the 2 switches on the advance unit and cannot the bank to properly reset when manually completing the last letter K

Again bank resets properly when completed through targets.

When I manually engage the J coil it always fires strong. The firing after K seems weak.

Below are pics of the two sets of switches (J and advance unit).

Thoughts???

D1BDE4CE-ABFD-421D-A732-7824A35A9710 (resized).jpegD1BDE4CE-ABFD-421D-A732-7824A35A9710 (resized).jpegFB0BED5F-D371-4084-82E9-CC5A81CD0FC4 (resized).jpegFB0BED5F-D371-4084-82E9-CC5A81CD0FC4 (resized).jpeg
#50 2 years ago

At this point could it simply be a mechanical issue where the bar is just lock locking that last K relay on reset?

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