(Topic ID: 177764)

Gottlieb Sky Line Help! *My first machine*

By Briehl

7 years ago


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  • 45 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by zh2oson
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#1 7 years ago

Hello everyone and thanks for clicking this thread!
So last week I picked up my first pinball machine. I have been looking locally for years but they always seem to be scooped up as soon as they are posted for sale. I found this one that the owner had sitting in his garage for years with no plan on ever fixing it. So I got a good deal on it!
The first thing I had to do was rebuild the cabinet. It was missing the back wood panel and the bottom had fallen out. I basically took it all apart, recut the missing parts and Re assembled with a lot of glue! It turned out great and finally looked like a pinball machine again!
Before I tried to turn it on, I checked over the wiring the best I could without a schematic, cleaned some moving parts so they moved again, and started my list for things to order. When I was satisfied that nothing would short out and start a fire, I plugged it in.
The first time I got it started, it was very loud and obviously had some problems. Some things were stuck, relays were snapping open and closed, etc. So I had to clean some more and manually move a few things to get them un-stuck.

So today I come here with some questions that hopefully someone will be able to help me with! The way it works right now, when I plug it in, nothing happens. I have to open the coin door and tap a switch which brings the game to life (obviously need to adjust this so it works with the reset button on the door)
When it comes to life, the elevator doors open than close, and the elevator floor indicator will drop back to 0. My 1s and 100s score reel are missing the coils (on my list to order) but I believe I have them all resting at the 0 position and the 0 position switch is making contact.
My replay unit has a somewhat mangled switch bank as it seems someone has over turned it and now the pegs on the sprocket hit the switches at about 6 or 7 on the replay wheel. I believe it was modified like this for free play, but it will need some work.
The scoring motor under the play field spins constantly and I just realized that the ball release coil is stuck on. The playfield does not energize.

So to sum things up, the game wakes up, elevator doors open and close, floor drops back to 0, score reels are set to 0, and I have credits on the wheel. The score motor doesn't stop spinning, and the ball release coil is locked open while it is turned on.

I assume a switch is stuck closed somewhere so I am currently trying to trace the circuit.

When the start relay is activated, the 115v hold relay begins to hold, and the elevator door relay flips on then off.

If anyone has any info that can help me I would greatly appreciate it! Sorry for the long post and I will post some pictures of the game soon!

-Brett

#2 7 years ago

Welcome to Pinside, and congrats on getting a Sky Line, that is a great game!

At the start of a new game, the ball gate is supposed to stay energized until you score some points, so for the moment I would not worry about that.

The score motor running sounds like you are not coming out of reset. The most common reason this happens is because the game is waiting for all of the score units to return to zero. Since you have two score units that are not working, you should check to see if this is your problem. On the control bank (the long row of relays mounted on the bottom board) look for a relay marked RESET COMPLETED or something like that. If this relay has not tripped even though all the score units are back at zero, try tripping it by hand to see if that makes the game come out of reset. If so, then the circuit that is supposed to detect that all score units are back at zero (which would trip the RESET COMPLETED relay) is not working right.

Do you have a schematic for your game? If not, you really should get one. The Pinball Resource sells them.

- TimMe

#3 7 years ago

Thank you very much for the reply!
I manually activated the reset relay, and you were right! My playfield activated! Although the ball release stayed activated and was humming even after I rolled the ball over a switch.

So something is not right with the start sequence? I will check the 0s switches on the score reels again.
Does anyone have a photo of how the replay unit is supposed to look? Since mine is mangled I feel this could possibly be part of the issue...

Again, thank you! I have read many threads on this forum over the past week and I am glad to have finally joined and asked a question!

#4 7 years ago

Also, I do not have a schematic yet. I am placing an order early next week with the pinball resource and it will be on the order for sure. The problem is that I am located in canada and shipping can take up to 6 weeks from the time the payment clears, which could also take a week. So I want to figure out most if not all of the things I need to replace before I place the order so I can get this thing working again!

#5 7 years ago

The score motor doesn't stop spinning until the reset, (or reset completed), relay is energized. 1 of the 3 switches on each score reel in the head makes at "0" and when all 3 are making, completes the circuit to the reset relay. Once this relay energizes, the score motor stops spinning and play may begin.

The ball release coil is supposed to remain energized at the end of the reset, and doesn't turn off until 1 or 10 points are scored during play. There is a normally closed switch on both 1 and 10-point relays, (not score reels), and once either are energized, will open and turn off the release coil.

On the credit unit, since you said the peg contacts the switches at 6-7 on the free play window, simply remove this peg, it is threaded on. In private play it is no longer needed. You should now be able to manually step down the replay unit to "0." Simply close all 3 switches permanently for free play. No further work should be needed on this unit, (unless it is not stepping freely in both directions).

Best to get the score reel coils, install, and see how things go then. Thus far, they are the only parts you need. John's Jukes in Vancouver should have the coils, (thinking this will help with the shipping). John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)

#6 7 years ago

Thanks for the reply!
I was playing around with it some more last night and figured a few more things out. I checked the 0 switches on the score reels and found that the 1s reel had dirty contacts on the 0 switch. I cleaned then up a bit and checked with my multi meter and confirmed they were making contact. This is where things got strange...
On the reply unit ( which was pretty mangled, but I found some photos online and adjusted the switches) the switch that is supposed to be the 0 switch has continuity with the contacts open or closed... I will have to check again, but I think the peg that hits the switch to say full credits (which makes contact at 5) also has continuity open or closed... that is why it was mangled. The peg would hit the switch at 5 but if you kept pressing the credit switch on the door it would rotate past 6 and that peg would push the switch bank further than it was supposed to go.
The advance unit has the same problem with continuity at the 0 switch with the contacts open or closed. I figure there must be a switch stuck closed somewhere but I am at a loss as to where it would be, but I figure this is probably why I can't finish my reset sequence.
Thanks!
-Brett

#7 7 years ago

It's difficult to check switches in-circuit on an EM using a meter. You will often get a reading showing a closed switch even when the contacts are open. This is due to a combination of factors, including the low resistance of the transformer secondary, the low resistance of the coils being controlled by the switch, and the possibility of a parallel switch on the same circuit (located somewhere else in the game) that happens to be closed.

If you are going to check switches for continuity with a meter, you will need to unhook one side of the switch and test it out-of-circuit. However, it isn't that useful to check a switch for OPEN with a meter. If you can see daylight between the switch contacts, and the backing blade isn't crossing the switch gap and shorting the blades, and the solder lugs for the switch blades aren't mashed over and touching each other, then the switch is open. In other words, when you can see that there is no contact between the switch blades, you have confirmed that the switch is open.

Similarly, if the switch points are clean and making good solid contact, then 999 times in 1000 the switch is closed. So again, using a meter is not particularly useful, even when you want to confirm that a switch is CLOSED. It's almost always faster and more practical to just close the switch under test with a jumper wire and see how the circuit reacts.

- TimMe

#8 7 years ago

Ok, so if that's the case, I have the score reels set to 0 with the contacts touching for the 0 switch, the advance unit it set to 0 with the contacts touching on the 0 switch, and the replay unit is set to 2, and the 0 switch contacts are not touching. With this configuration, it still does not complete it's start sequence. The score motor keeps spinning and the ball release coil is locked on.

-Brett

#9 7 years ago

Clean and adjust the switches on the ball release gate. There are three switches. Manually open and close the gate, observing the correct make/break of each switch in each position. Does the 110V coil for the trip bank reset energize? It is fused, so check that fuse if it isn't firing. If the fuse is good, check the "armature" switch. This switch is opened and closed by the action of the start relay's armature plate.
You can access it easiest by loosening the wing nuts on the reset bank, and flipping the bank assembly over.
It's carrying line voltage, so check it's continuity with the game unplugged from the wall outlet. These often become misadjusted or need cleaning, and the trip bank won't reset unless this switch is making.

#10 7 years ago

Here are some photos of the ball gate switches and the armature switch.
Sorry about the blurriness of the first photo. Please note, these photos are not from a "Sky Line", but from a "Bowling Queen". Should be exactly the same switches in both games.

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#11 7 years ago

I have an update!
I checked all of the ball release switches and cleaned the contacts and checked the switch on the bottom of the start relay and also cleaned it's contacts. Tried to start it and it did the same thing.
Next I decided to take a look at the score motor. I examined each switch as the wheel rotated and made sure it was either making or not making contact as it rotated. They all seemed fine but I noticed around a few of the contacts it was a bit black. So I went through every contact and gave it a quick clean...
This time when I turned it on, the score motor began to run like it always would so I hit the tilt rod and it shut down.
Now I pressed the reset button on the door, the game lit up and the 2 coils for the reset banks energized and reset the banks.
The game went silent!

So now I am through the startup procedure! The ball release is energized and I press a switch to score a point. The ball release DE energizes and the chime goes in the back. But cleaning the contacts must have made better contact for the score reels because now when I score points it actually tries to move the score reel in the 10s reel (the only one with a coil currently). If I help the wheel around(will need to clean it so it moves better), the second relay in the back unit shuts off but the third relay stays stuck with the plunger for the chime coil halfway stuck up. If I release this relay by hand the coil drops and the game seems back to normal. But everytime that chime needs to sound, the relay gets stuck. *yesterday when I manually pressed the reset relay I could touch every switch on the playfield and the chime would go and not stick. But yesterday the 10s relay would not even try to move*

Thanks for the help so far! This is pretty great progress for under 24 hours since my first question!
-Brett

#12 7 years ago

It's actually every relay in the back unit that stick. There are 4 relays back there and whenever something is scored on the playfield the relay sticks and needs to be manually pulled back or else it hums.

#13 7 years ago

Each score unit is driven by a point relay - N, M, and L are the three relays for the 1, 10, and 100 point score units respectively. Each score unit has an EOS (end-of-stroke) switch built into it that is used in combination with its point relay to ensure reliable scoring.

When a score switch closes on the playfield, the relevant point relay is energized, which locks itself on electrically via its own lockin switch. A different switch on the point relay energizes the solenoid of the score unit. When the score unit mechanism has indexed far enough to advance the reel, its EOS switch opens and that cuts the power to the lockin circuit of the point relay.

Since you have two score units without solenoids, for those two score units the point relays are going to lock on forever because the EOS switches on the score units are never going to open. For the score unit that is working, you'll need to check the lockin circuit for that point relay to see why the opening of the EOS switch on the related score unit isn't shutting off the relay.

- TimMe

#14 7 years ago

I will check into the eos switch for the 10s relay, but it's strange that this seemed to be working yesteady when I did the manual reset. The relays would pulse when the points were scored and the bell would chime. The relays would engage and disengage as they should if it was all working. Now it's not.. strange..

#15 7 years ago

You cleaned all the contacts on the score units, right? It's possible the EOS switches were not making good contact before, so the lockin circuits for the point relays were always open. Once you cleaned the EOS switches, the lockin circuits started working, and the point relays started locking up.

- TimMe

#16 7 years ago

Ok that makes sense. Thanks for all the help so far. I really appreciate it. I will be placing my parts order on Monday so hopefully I get everything I need sooner rather than later and I can get this machine 100%!
The only other problem I have noticed so far is one of the pop bumpers in the middle does not work. I checked the resistance on the coil and it matches the rest of them, but it just doesn't go. I think it is supposed to run by the same relay which runs another working one (working is green, non working is blue) I haven't tried to clean the contacts on the playfield relays yet so that will probably be my next guess. I just assumed it would activate if the other one on the circuit activated and as long as it had a good coil, which it does.

Thanks!

#17 7 years ago

Update!
Ok so I have most of this machine figured out! I just have a few things left....
I got the pop bumper working, it was just a ditry and possibly slightly misaligned switch under the bumper. There was one more contact on the playfield which needed cleaning as well.
I cleaned the end of stroke switches on the score reels as well as adjusted the spring for my working score reel (spring was a little rusted and tight, will be ordering replacements) this brought the 10s reel into fully working mode. Although the relays were still sticking open unless I manually opened the end of stoke switch on other reels. I tried placing a piece of cardboard between the contacts so it would always read as being the end of stroke for the 1s and 100s relay. This made all of the relays function as normal, but my advance unit would not progress. So I pulled the cardboard out and tried again, everything began to work! So I'm sure I will have more adjusting to do when I get those new coils installed, but for now it's working!
The problem I have now has to do with the ball release. The coil locks on when the game starts, stays on until I hit a point (sometimes I have to hit 2 points switches which is strange) after the points are hit it deenergizes. The ball can bounce around the board, hit points, advance the elevator, get free plays, but when the ball drops below the flippers, the coil does not energize again to release the ball. Even if I have credits available it doesn't release it unless I manually move it. I only have 1 ball for this game right now so that might have something to do with it, but I feel like something is not right..
The other thing is more game specific so I don't know if anyone can help me for sure. Above the flippers has a red special when lit light that looks almost like a rollover switch which you would hit if your ball rolled down the center between your flippers. I have had the game play before and got enough points for this light to work but it wouldn't go out. I tried rolling the ball over it, tried rolling it down the middle between the flippers, nothing. There is no switch under this spot on the board. It is just a light under a plastic cap.
Besides these couple of things it's just light bulbs I need to replace. Lots seem to be burnt out, some are dim, and some are missing all together... I am ok the fence right now if I should just order replacement #44 bulbs or spend a bit more and order led bulbs.

Any more help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
-Brett

#18 7 years ago

Excellent progress! You need to put 5 balls into this game to get 5-ball play.

The red special indicator above the flippers lights when you knock out all of the numbers from 1 to 12. Once you get all 12 numbers, the special stays lit for the remainder of the game. The red special just an indicator light to let you know you've completed the number sequence.

When the red special lights, there should also be one of the numbers from 1 to 12 that lights up again. The lit number is what should score a replay. As you make points on the playfield, the lit number is supposed to change. Whichever number is lit at any given time while the red special is lit is the one that is supposed to score a replay. This feature is called a "traveling special."

- TimMe

#19 7 years ago

Ok that special makes sense. Since so many of my lights are burnt out, that would explain why I couldn't figure it out.

And it sounds like the problem with my ball release is because it doesnt have the 5 balls loaded initially? Does this mean that the max credits I can have for the game is 5? Or if I have 6 credits on the game, 5 balls loaded, shoot 1, drop it between the flippers, the next ball will be released and so on until I get to 0 credits? I noticed the ball tray has 4 switches so I suppose this makes sense...

#20 7 years ago

There is no connection between the number of credits and the number of balls per game. They are two different things entirely. The number of credits is determined by the replay stepper unit in the head.

Here is why you need to put five balls in the game. When the game starts, the ball gate opens and all five balls roll down past the gate into a holding area in the lower section of the ball trough. You feed each of these five balls to the shooter lane using the push-up knob. The ball gate will close when you score some points on the first ball, but since all five balls are sitting in the holding area beyond the gate, you will be able to play them all.

When the first ball drains it is stopped by the (now closed) ball gate. As you play the remaining balls they stack up behind the first ball in the upper section of the ball trough, where the switches are. The four trough switches are there to actuate the game-over relay and the match feature. The first two switches are there for when you are running the game as a 3-ball game (in which case you would only put 3 balls in the game). The second two switches are there for when you are running the game as a 5-ball game.

The reason there are two switches for the game-over circuit is because each ball that drains rolls over every switch in the trough before it gets stopped by the closed ball gate. If there was only one game-over switch, say, for the 5th ball, it would be closed when the first ball drained. So two switches are needed. They are wired in series, which means there must be a 4th ball AND a 5th ball present in the trough to close both switches at the same time, which then actuates the game over circuit.

- TimMe

#21 7 years ago

When I was looking at it yesterday I figured it would operate someway like that. So I think it makes sense.
One credit will give the player 5 balls. When the player plays the 5 balls they will stop on the switches and activate the game over relay. If you have more credits you can press reset and release the five balls again. But the max balls for one game is 5? I thought this game played so if you rolled down an ally on either side of the flippers while a lane was lit, you would get to replay that ball again, since you would be sacrificing that ball to hit the rollover switch. I could be wrong with this though. I have never seen this machine work 100% before so I'm still learning as I go.

-Brett

#22 7 years ago

Nope. Five balls and five balls only. There may be an adjustment for three ball play, but I've never used it on this era machine.

#23 7 years ago

Replays, which are won by hitting "special", reaching a score threshhold, attaining a certain number of "advances", or by getting a "match" at the end of the game, are simply free games. Any time the credit wheel is anywhere but zero, the game can be started by pressing the button on the cashbox door. At "zero", a coin is needed to either start the game or add credits. Many of us modify the switch on the replay unit which opens at the zero position, so that it is closed at zero. This way, the game is always on "free play", and a coin is never needed to start the game. Each and every game though is five balls, because this is a replay machine. There is no add-a-ball counterpart to "Sky Line", although I wish there were. I've often thought about what it might have been called. Maybe "Sky High", "City Lights", or "High Society".

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from TimMe:

Do you have a schematic for your game? If not, you really should get one.

This is good advice. And if you are like me, you buy schematics, spread them out on top of another machine, and then just stare at it like you are figuring out some complex circuit, but in reality, you have no idea what the heck it all means. I sometimes spend hours doing this. I even point to different circuits when my wife comes down to the basement and "explain" what they all mean just to impress her--it's not like she is going to correct me.

Then I grab some alligator clips and fake my way through troubleshooting with those as well.

#25 7 years ago

Ah ok that makes sense now! I was messing around with it and pressing switches with the ball gutter and the game would stop with the last 2 switches pressed. The first 2 closest to the coil had no affect but that probably has something to do with switching the game to 3 ball and they wolud be activated.
I noticed that game over wouldn't light on the back glass when those last 2 switches were pressed though. Although it would not surprise me if the bulb was burnt out. Would this be when game over would light or does it light if you have 0 credits.
But at the bottom of the back glass a number 5 lit up when I had 1 credit showing on the machine. I did not even realize there were lights or numbers down there so I have no idea what that means...

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

This is good advice. And if you are like me, you buy schematics, spread them out on top of another machine, and then just stare at it like you are figuring out some complex circuit, but in reality, you have no idea what the heck it all means. I sometimes spend hours doing this. I even point to different circuits when my wife comes down to the basement and "explain" what they all mean just to impress her--it's not like she is going to correct me.
Then I grab some alligator clips and fake my way through troubleshooting with those as well.

My schematic will be ordered tomorrow! They told me shipping can take up to 6 weeks though so I am trying to not wait that long to get it working! Haha

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from Briehl:

My schematic will be ordered tomorrow! They told me shipping can take up to 6 weeks though so I am trying to not wait that long to get it working! Haha

And of course my post was in jest. I was just trying to make the point that the schematics will take a while to get used to, even after you have been looking at them for several years (at least in my case).

#28 7 years ago
Quoted from Briehl:

But at the bottom of the back glass a number 5 lit up when I had 1 credit showing on the machine. I did not even realize there were lights or numbers down there so I have no idea what that means...

Those numbers light up for the "Match Award". On Sky Line, 0 to 9. A number should light with the end of the game.

#29 7 years ago

Since your match light works at the end of the game, the game over light bulb in the head must be burned out.

2 months later
#30 7 years ago

Hey everyone.
It's been awhile since I posted in this thread about my Sky line, but I figured I would give an update. I have clearcoated the playfield and spent some serious time cleaning every single playfield piece before I reinstalled it. I got my schematic and was able to get basically everything figured out.

I only have a couple issues which I can't seem to figure out.
When I press the replay button on the front of the coin door, it does not remove credits from the score reel. I can add them with another button, but the never seem to decrease. The coil works, as I am able to jumper power to it and they go down.
The game does not always reset the elevator floor. This used to work but does not anymore.
The replay unit does not stop when it reaches max credits. The contacts are all adjusted perfectly in this unit and it moves freely, but for some reason it's not working properly.
The light in the purple pop bumper keeps getting too bright, then it burns out. I have replaced this bulb 4 times now and it keeps happening...

I have checked and cleaned all the relays and jones plugs and switch contacts but I'm not having luck. The rest of the game is working perfect, but this is stumping me. Any ideas anyone!?!

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#31 7 years ago
Quoted from Briehl:

Hey everyone.
It's been awhile since I posted in this thread about my Sky line, but I figured I would give an update. I have clearcoated the playfield and spent some serious time cleaning every single playfield piece before I reinstalled it. I got my schematic and was able to get basically everything figured out.
I only have a couple issues which I can't seem to figure out.
When I press the replay button on the front of the coin door, it does not remove credits from the score reel. I can add them with another button, but the never seem to decrease. The coil works, as I am able to jumper power to it and they go down.
The game does not always reset the elevator floor. This used to work but does not anymore.
The replay unit does not stop when it reaches max credits. The contacts are all adjusted perfectly in this unit and it moves freely, but for some reason it's not working properly.
The light in the purple pop bumper keeps getting too bright, then it burns out. I have replaced this bulb 4 times now and it keeps happening...
I have checked and cleaned all the relays and jones plugs and switch contacts but I'm not having luck. The rest of the game is working perfect, but this is stumping me. Any ideas anyone!?!

Man, this brings back memories. Between my brother and myself, this was like our fourth or fifth game ever. He bought a pretty wrecked one, and brought it back to life. The front of the head was torn up a lot worse than yours, and he made a whole new front panel for it out of 1/4" plywood. He has the game to this day.
There may be a common cause for the three issues in the head. You said you cleaned all the jones plug connectors, but I'm thinking there's one pin and socket that isn't making. I don't have a schematic in front of me, but look for something that is common to the subtract credit, reset animation unit, and the add credits circuits. I know I had the same problem of not subtracting credits on my "Bowling Queen" a while ago, but I can't remember what fixed it. It was just one switch that needed adjusting, but I don't remember which one it was.

#32 7 years ago

We have put some serious time into playing this game over the past week or so and it is really quite fun and challenging! I have the scoring adjustment pin set to conservative so it makes the game quite difficult to get a high score. From what I can tell, in this setting the 10 points when lit only comes on every 3 floors. It also seems like the floors are random. It takes skill to stay on the current floor and not advance, so you are able to continue collecting the 10 points per hit. It makes it quite challenging which I enjoy!

The automotive clearcoat on the playfield makes it play amazingly as well. The ball is super quick on everything and the playfield is so smooth that it feels like there is no friction. When the ball gets going fast from the slingshots or pop bumpers it gets pretty intense!

As for my problems, I will check out the Jones plugs again. They are such a pain to clean, and I felt like I did a great job last time I re cleaned them, maybe I partially missed one. Hopefully that fixes it!
One thing I figured out, the game will reset the elevator doors every time if I knock the bottom of the game to turn it off, then hit the reset on the coin door. It still doesn't decrease credits though, and I am still able to add credits past the max switch opening on the replay unit.

My lights are beginning to become quite annoying as well! For whatever reason, the pop bumper bulbs in the purple and green pop bumpers are getting quite bright and eventually burning out. I've replaced the purple one about 3 or 4 times, green twice, and just last night the blue burnt out but didn't get bright first. I've also had a few bulbs burn out in the numbered lanes at the top, and around the center top hat dead bumper. I don't get it! The fuse has never popped either. The lights in the pop bumpers may be because of the constant slamming of the unit itself, but even that doesn't seem right. I feel like I shouldn't have to take the glass off even once a week to replace a burnt out bulb...
The bulbs are from pinball resource as well. I don't know if it's happened with anyone else, but I had probably 10 bulbs which were burnt out straight from the package as well. At least their cheap I guess!

I can post a few parts of the wiring schematic as well if it helps make anything clearer!

Thanks for reading!
-Brett

#33 7 years ago
Quoted from Briehl:

We have put some serious time into playing this game over the past week or so and it is really quite fun and challenging! I have the scoring adjustment pin set to conservative so it makes the game quite difficult to get a high score. From what I can tell, in this setting the 10 points when lit only comes on every 3 floors. It also seems like the floors are random. It takes skill to stay on the current floor and not advance, so you are able to continue collecting the 10 points per hit. It makes it quite challenging which I enjoy!
The automotive clearcoat on the playfield makes it play amazingly as well. The ball is super quick on everything and the playfield is so smooth that it feels like there is no friction. When the ball gets going fast from the slingshots or pop bumpers it gets pretty intense!
As for my problems, I will check out the Jones plugs again. They are such a pain to clean, and I felt like I did a great job last time I re cleaned them, maybe I partially missed one. Hopefully that fixes it!
One thing I figured out, the game will reset the elevator doors every time if I knock the bottom of the game to turn it off, then hit the reset on the coin door. It still doesn't decrease credits though, and I am still able to add credits past the max switch opening on the replay unit.
My lights are beginning to become quite annoying as well! For whatever reason, the pop bumper bulbs in the purple and green pop bumpers are getting quite bright and eventually burning out. I've replaced the purple one about 3 or 4 times, green twice, and just last night the blue burnt out but didn't get bright first. I've also had a few bulbs burn out in the numbered lanes at the top, and around the center top hat dead bumper. I don't get it! The fuse has never popped either. The lights in the pop bumpers may be because of the constant slamming of the unit itself, but even that doesn't seem right. I feel like I shouldn't have to take the glass off even once a week to replace a burnt out bulb...
The bulbs are from pinball resource as well. I don't know if it's happened with anyone else, but I had probably 10 bulbs which were burnt out straight from the package as well. At least their cheap I guess!
I can post a few parts of the wiring schematic as well if it helps make anything clearer!
Thanks for reading!
-Brett

It sounds like you may have gotten a bad batch or two of lamps. Try a different brand if you can find them. If it still continues to blow out bulbs after using a different brand, you might have some kind of intermittent leak from the solenoid voltage into the lamp circuit. Not that it would affect the lamps, but just wondering; is the game high tapped?

#34 7 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

It sounds like you may have gotten a bad batch or two of lamps. Try a different brand if you can find them. If it still continues to blow out bulbs after using a different brand, you might have some kind of intermittent leak from the solenoid voltage into the lamp circuit. Not that it would affect the lamps, but just wondering; is the game high tapped?

The transformer is wired normally, not to high tap.

Last night I was messing around with the schematic and score motor. I ended up adjusting some switches in the replay removal circuit and got it to work so when I start a game a credit is removed. It also seemed to fix the problem where the elevator floor wouldnt always reset. The way it is now, when I start a game, other buttons on the coin door do not work until I score a point on the playfield and it also stops the ball release coil from holding. I believe this is how the game is supposed to operate?

Replay credits still do not stop when they hit max. The switches are adjusted properly, but when the switch opens to show the credit wheel is on 15, the game still allows more to be added...

As for the lights, I am at a loss for what's going on here. The lighting circuit seems so simple from the schematic but for whatever I can't figure this out. The lights becoming too bright seems to be some sort of over powering. I just don't know what could be causing it or where voltage could be entering that circuit. Any ideas for this? It's never caused a fuse to blow or anything...

#35 7 years ago

Have you checked the voltage of the lighting circuit with a DVOM?
You say the lights get bright. Is that a momentary thing or do they stay bright for a while before burning out?
If it's something that you can measure, you can determine if it's a current leak, or a bad batch of lamps.
Gottlieb used what are called "sand resistors" for some lighting applications. These allowed them to use a 6 volt lamp in a 24 volt circuit. I'm not sure if "Sky Line" uses any of these anywhere, but if so, it's possible that one may be breaking down and allowing 24 volts to leak into the lighting circuit.

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Have you checked the voltage of the lighting circuit with a DVOM?
You say the lights get bright. Is that a momentary thing or do they stay bright for a while before burning out?
If it's something that you can measure, you can determine if it's a current leak, or a bad batch of lamps.
Gottlieb used what are called "sand resistors" for some lighting applications. These allowed them to use a 6 volt lamp in a 24 volt circuit. I'm not sure if "Sky Line" uses any of these anywhere, but if so, it's possible that one may be breaking down and allowing 24 volts to leak into the lighting circuit.

The pop bumper lights sometimes just get bright for a bit, then go back to normal. They do this a few times then just don't turn on again. I can't say I've seen a resister on the schematic, but I will look again. It should be listed on the schematic, right?

I will try and get a lamp to become bright and check it with a multi meter.

When we were playing last night I noticed that the number 6 lane light eventually went dimmer. This happened after playing for about 45 minutes. Turned the machine off for an hour or so and when we played again the light was normal, but after some time again it began to dim. Also noticed that some of the other lights would get a bit dimmer when the flippers would go or pop bumpers etc. It doesn't start doing this though until the game is being played for some time.

#37 7 years ago

I found a resister on the schematic. And it is also on the relay which controls the pop bumper lights. I don't know where it is located on the game, but could this be my problem?

I turned the game on today to try and test the voltage when one of the lights gets bright, but for whatever reason the game decided today that the a relay (score control relay) would just not work... so I guess I need to check some more switches and figure that out. It's the relay which turns all the when lit lights on and it's not turning on in any scenario. Very weird since it was working fine for about 3 hours last night. Probably an easy fix but I'll have to figure it out before I can test the voltage at the lights...

20170325_135542 (resized).jpg20170325_135542 (resized).jpg

#38 7 years ago

Ok so that is for sure the only resistor on this machine. I just went through and found where it is located. Pulled out my multimeter and set it to read ohms but could only get it to read anything with it set at 200k and 20m. When I test the resistor I get a reading of 150 and 14.8
Maybe something is wrong with my multimeter because I should be able to test it at the 2000 setting. But I can try and get a new resistor. What kind of stores would sell these other than a specialized electrical store which would be closed on a weekend..

20170325_142613 (resized).jpg20170325_142613 (resized).jpg

#39 7 years ago

That isn't the typical sand resistor that is normally used. You won't get a true resistance reading unless you unsolder one leg of the resistor. Looking at your schematic, it doesn't look like this resistor has anything to do with lighting anyway. It's probably there to prevent overcurrent from pitting and burning the rivets on the wiper disc of the 0-9 unit.

#40 7 years ago

Thanks for the reply.
I managed to get the special when lit lights to work properly again so I was able to check the circuit with my multi meter. I put in 3 new bulbs to replace the 3 which had burnt out in the past 2 days. When I installed them, the lights lit up as they should. After maybe 6 or 7 games, the purple pop bumper light turned bright. I unscrewed the bulb and checked with my meter. 5.2v. I next tried another light with a still normal brightness bulb and it was also 5.2v
I swapped the two bulbs and they illuminated normally. After I few hits on the pop bumpers the bulb that was brighter before turned bright again in its new socket.
So I decided to try out an old bulb that came in the game. So far it's working but I will see what happens. I don't understand why this is happening but it's getting quite annoying

#41 7 years ago

So probably about 100 games later, the old #44 bulbs are still working in the pop bumpers. I will have to find a solution for this because I don't want to keep #44 bulbs in there when I put on the new pop bumper caps, but for now it's working out.
I also soldered a couple more sockets which were spinning and had dimming issues and they seem to be good!

The only issue I seem to have with the game is the max credits. For whatever reason, when the wheel hits 15 and opens the max switch, it is still allowing the game to add more credits. Looking at the schematic it looks like if that switch opened it would stop the game from adding more but that isn't the case. I even checked to make sure it was making and breaking with the ohm meter, which it was, but it's still allowing me to add more!

#42 7 years ago

Have you checked the resistance across the switch contacts that make when the credit wheel gets to max position? It should read basically no resistance. If it is reading most any value your switch is not closing adequately. If that is the case try lightly filing the contact points on each leaf with a fine metal file.

#43 7 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

Have you checked the resistance across the switch contacts that make when the credit wheel gets to max position? It should read basically no resistance. If it is reading most any value your switch is not closing adequately. If that is the case try lightly filing the contact points on each leaf with a fine metal file.

When the wheel gets to max it opens the switch on the replay unit. It shows the resistance as 0 at max between the switch contacts. At 14 and under on the replay unit it shows that it is making contact.

#44 7 years ago
Quoted from Briehl:

When the wheel gets to max it opens the switch on the replay unit. It shows the resistance as 0 at max between the switch contacts. At 14 and under on the replay unit it shows that it is making contact.

Since the switch is supposed to open and break the power circuit to the step up coil there is a short in the circuit. The first place to look is the solder tabs on the back side of the switch that is supposed to open.

4 months later
#45 6 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

This is good advice. And if you are like me, you buy schematics, spread them out on top of another machine, and then just stare at it like you are figuring out some complex circuit, but in reality, you have no idea what the heck it all means. I sometimes spend hours doing this. I even point to different circuits when my wife comes down to the basement and "explain" what they all mean just to impress her--it's not like she is going to correct me.
Then I grab some alligator clips and fake my way through troubleshooting with those as well.

While wearing a tool belt, right? That's my game.

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