(Topic ID: 295027)

Gottlieb Sing Along Reset Help Needed

By marcburn

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 8 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by baldtwit
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 4 months ago

Hello,

I’m a newbie but have recently acquired a dead Sing Along. I’ve spent the past month familiarizing myself with the machine, cleaning, re-wiring the power and all the pre-power up stuff. When I power it up and put in a dime the motor spins and I got G.I. However the reset sequence does not complete and the motor continues to run indefinitely. The sequence bank setup bar fires continuously, moving it’s reset bar. As soon as it resets the DS relay latches. The control bank reset doesn’t fire and release the latched SB coil.

Troubleshooting steps I’ve taken:
1. Wire traced continuity for both reset bars. I’m confident that I’m able to get power to both reset coils when the switches are correct
2. Reset score reels to zero position and ensured runout switches on each are closed
3. Validated that when the DS coil is latched, that the switches open/close, are clean and I’m getting continuity expected
4. Validated coin door switches are not stuck
5. Manually added credits to the credit reel

Some observations during testing if it helps:
1. When I power up with the motor in the number 4 position and power up, the control bank setup fires exactly once even though the motor continuously turns and each time 3c Comes around the sequence bank set up Coil fires and Is followed by the DS relay immediately latching. This latching DC latching is causing that DS switch to be open and the sequence bank to never reset the SB relay.
2. If I power up with motor in 1st position, then the control bank coil never fires but motor runs, seq bank resets and DS latches over and over
3. The total meter play advances
4. If I set the ball count stepper >0 it will reset
5. When I unplug the machine the DS relay often is left in a latched state, SB relay is always in a latched state

I don’t know what else to try but it seems like some sort of timing issue but I don’t know what to do next to isolate it further. Any help or suggestion on what to else to try is welcomed greatly.

Thanks in advance,

Marc

#2 4 months ago
Quoted from marcburn:

The control bank reset doesn’t fire and release the latched SB coil.

Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156
Be careful because this circuit runs on 120 volts

The 1 amp fuse will be the easiest thing to check. Most likely the SB Armature switch will be the problem. It's on the other side of the SB relay from the other switches.

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#3 4 months ago

Ok. I have checked it with the continuity Meter. Sb arm switch has no continuity across the switch (fuse removed) until the the sb relay latches. I have not flipped Up the relay bank yet though to visual inspect it so I will do that next. Doesn’t seem that the other reset bank would be working though if the sb arm switch wasn’t working since both are controlled by it and it’s going gangbusters .

Thank you again for help this time and last time I posted.

Marc

#4 4 months ago
Quoted from marcburn:

Doesn’t seem that the other reset bank would be working though if the sb arm switch wasn’t working since both are controlled by it

Good point. What about the Motor 4C switch and the normally closed switch on DS in the Control Bank setup circuit?

#5 4 months ago

Ok. I visually inspected the sb arm switch and it didn’t look like it should be working but it does. Looks a little mangled and when the sb relay activates the end of the leaf doesn’t contact the pad on the relay As I think it should however the leafs do make good contact. I jumpered it and tried it and got the same Bad results. I moved the alligator clip up the circuit to the 4c switch. I got success by way of both reset banks fired once then it all went dead. It was expected because sb relay was reset and the r relay is not latching to hold the power on.

However I’m still suspecting a timing issue because with 4c jumped everything happened immediately but without the jump, 2c would have reset the control bank then DS would have tripped and by the time The motor turns to position 4 to close 4c the DS Relay has fired setting that DS switch to open. I tried starting the motor in different positions but I’m just not sure how the sequence is supposed to work to keep DS closed long enough to allow 4c to fire the reset. I confirmed this by jumping the DS switch in that circuit, when 4c came around it reset worked on that and the machine turned off as expected once the sb relay was reset (remember r relay isn’t holding the switch closed). Just not sure what to do next.

#6 4 months ago

as you describe it's impossible, but I'm not sure what the DS relay is on that game or even what type of relay it is.

I don't have a sing along schem handy, but I'm going to the pacific pinball museum monday night and can look at a schem and at their working game to see what is supposed to happen.

turning on the game with the score motor out of an index position to try and force switches to toggle out of their normal sequence is definitely cheating

#7 4 months ago

Based on a recent experience I recommend unscrewing the reset bank from its base board so that you can lift it up and inspect the armature switches in operating position. Your description of a mangled switch sounds like what I encountered.

#8 4 months ago

with 1 ball shot and a few points scored, the bank reset happens in 240 degrees of score motor cam rotation:

~45 degrees cam rotation: sequence bank resets, which latches DS relay up
~90 : control bank resets
~220 degrees : DS relay trips

a couple unedited videos at:

https://bingo.cdyn.com/marc/sing_along_reset.mp4
https://bingo.cdyn.com/marc/sing_along_reset2.mp4

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