(Topic ID: 243990)

Gottlieb Sing Along 1/2 fixed


By Impact93

9 months ago



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  • Latest reply 8 months ago by SuperDaveOsbourn
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#1 9 months ago

Started out with reset issues but thanks to help from the community i was able to repair a leaf switch on a score reel and soldered some suspicious wires. I can now get the machine to reset correctly and the field is ready for play! Thanks!!

•Reset issue fixed!•

Remaining issues

1.When the ball in play drains the credits won’t go down no matter how many times a ball is drained. The credits reel DOES act correctly when adding a quarter and starting a game.

2.The bigger problem of the two- The ones reel will not advance. Just bright sparks from the relay, all 4 of the leaf switches flash and spark, Ive cleaned them but this hasn’t helped. In order to remove some variables I removed the score and the gearing from the situation so all I’m asking the coil to do is fire with little to no resistance pushing on it, a task it seems unwilling to do unless I disconnect the return spring. The video below will show this better.

Thanks everyone for the help so far!

#2 9 months ago

There are two coils on the credits unit. One to increase and one to decrease. Clearly the increase coil works. When you start a new game I’m assuming either no power gets to the decrease coil, the coil is bad or the unit is needing cleaning or adjustment.

Not sure on the ones unit. Is the coil firing?

#3 9 months ago
Quoted from Impact93:

When the ball in play drains the credits won’t go down no matter how many times a ball is drained. The credits reel DOES act correctly when adding a quarter and starting a game.

How are the credits related to the number of balls remaining? On most games there are separate units to track those.

#4 9 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

How are the credits related to the number of balls remaining? On most games there are separate units to track those.

Right... but after a game of 3 ball when the last ball drains and it’s game over the credit reel should knock down one shouldn’t it?

#5 9 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Not sure on the ones unit. Is the coil firing?

Yup I attached a video to the comment above. The coil fires but it’s weak, it will only pull in if I disconnect the tension spring. Does that just mean the coil is weak and needs to be replaced?

#6 9 months ago
Quoted from Impact93:

after a game of 3 ball when the last ball drains and it’s game over the credit reel should knock down one shouldn’t it?

The credits generally decrement when you press the start button.

#7 9 months ago
Quoted from Impact93:

Yup I attached a video to the comment above. The coil fires but it’s weak, it will only pull in if I disconnect the tension spring. Does that just mean the coil is weak and needs to be replaced?

Before replacing the coil you need to make sure it is getting the proper voltage (25V give or take).
Does the plunger move freely? If the sleeve is gummed up it could be a matter of cleaning. Alternatively it could be a physical problem with the coil.

#8 8 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Before replacing the coil you need to make sure it is getting the proper voltage (25V give or take).
Does the plunger move freely?

The plunger does move freely, very easy to move. I’ll check the voltage on that coil tomorrow. Is there a particular parts supplier that you would recommend if the coil is shot?

Thanks very much for the advice

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

The credits generally decrement when you press the start button.

Makes sense, I wonder why I can’t get the game to “end” then and require another press of the start button. I’ve tried draining 10 balls and it still won’t give me a game over, I can just keep playing infinitely on one credit it would seem.

#10 8 months ago
Quoted from Impact93:

The plunger does move freely, very easy to move. I’ll check the voltage on that coil tomorrow. Is there a particular parts supplier that you would recommend if the coil is shot?
Thanks very much for the advice

Pinball Resource is the best. If you haven’t worked with Steve Young he’ll get you set up. Extremely knowledgeable and helpful but definitely old school. Coils are usually around 10 bucks. Marco will run a couple dollars higher for the same item.

#11 8 months ago

Ok so I tested the coil on the ones reel and then tested all the other coils on the reels that are working correctly and they all read the same which means my coil is ok....Not the answer I was hoping for as replacing a coil seems easy.

I then tested the relays below because i was in there anyway and THEY all read the same as eachother too...

So if the sleeve isn’t dirty and the and the plunger moves freely and the coil isn’t bad then what would make a coil hit so weak that it can’t turn a score reel properly. The switches definitely send out some serious sparks.

•Pictures below ohm meter reading same number across all score reel coils

•1’s relay sparking when scoring is attempted.

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#12 8 months ago

The sparking makes me think there is a short on one of the circuits on that relay.

Isolate each switch with a piece of paper to see which one is causing the spark.

Do you get a bell/chime when the 1's relay strokes?

#13 8 months ago
Quoted from Impact93:

why I can’t get the game to “end” then

Check your schematic for a game over relay and a ball count unit. Are there any indicators on the backglass that indicate ball in play? If those show the correct ball it could be a clue.
This might help you: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

#14 8 months ago

For Sing Along the Ball in Play counter is on the front apron on the left side of the machine. See attached.

I think there are two issues here. One is the replay counter. I’m not sure if this is being looked at. If the replay count increases but doesn’t decrease that could be a coil issue or voltage or a bad connection.

The sparking issue should be addressed first. I’m assuming the sparking occurs when you hit a scoring feature on the playfield. What happens if you engage the ones relay (N). Does it spark? If so I agree with MikeO (hi Mike!) that you should isolate each of the four switches. As I recall one engages the score reel coil, another goes to the bell. Don’t remember the other two - have to check my notes.

I recommend resolving these issues before getting hung up on infinite balls. I had the same situation several months ago. Diagnosed everything and found nothing. Gave up and worked on a separate issue where a relay would not lock on. Changed a wire which resolved that and as a bonus the infinite balls issue cleared up as well.

Keep plugging away. I’m sure we’ll get this taken care of.

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#15 8 months ago

Thanks for the responses guys!

So I started doing as you both suggested and started isolating the switches. At first I was only isolating one at a time and I got nowhere but then I started isolating 2 at a time and BINGO!! If I make sure that 2 of the leaf switch contacts on one side don’t touch the score reel fires perfectly!! if either of those two switches close it sparks (I’ll add a photo) As far as the bell goes, it does work sometimes but I’m not exactly sure about it as I haven’t checked the scoring specifically.

I realize that my terminology is a bit off and I thank you for hanging with me as I describe all this in layman's terms and with pictures! I really appreciate it guys. I other finding I made today is that the game seems to have been wired for free play so that may have something to do with the credits but as you both pointed out we can solve that later.

Now to determine what those two switches are responsible for...I guess it would help if I learned to read schematics.

Thanks guys!

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#16 8 months ago
Quoted from MikeO:

Do you get a bell/chime when the 1's relay strokes?

Strokes. Is that for every singular point or is a stroke a instance when you roll past 9 and it increments the 10’s reel one turn?

The bell doesn’t seem to chime at any point during the 1’s reel score counting. The 1’s reel also fails to increment the 10’s reel at all.
Basically it spins 1-2-3-4-5-6-7–8-9-0 as it should but has no effect on the 10’s reel.

#17 8 months ago

Thanks for the picture. That helps.
The far right bad switch looks to be sl-wh-red which when engaged keeps the N coil pulled in.
The next one (also bad) appears to be yel-bl which goes to the M coil. This would move you from 9 to 0 while moving the tens reel up one. It would not hurt to make sure your 9 switch on the ones reel is adjusted correctly.
Br+red is next (good). This should activate the 0-9 unit which rotates it and rings the ones bell. Does this rotate?
Last is bl+red which is fine. This should fire the ones unit coil and advance the reel.

Good luck!

#18 8 months ago

Well, looks like I jumped the gun on my diagnosis....sorry for the confusion.... I’m actually more confused I think

so... here we go

After a bit more testing with blocking some switches I realize I blamed the wrong switches and upon further inspection you can actually SEE that the leaf that is the culprit has heat damage (picture added) and it’s only the top left that is causing the issue...I think

If i disable that particular leaf on the ones relay the ones reel fires beautifully both manually and when you score via the playfield the bad part is the tens reel fires right along along with it right in sync no matter if you activate the ones relay manually or via the score field.... confusing

The 0-9 doesn’t move at all, ever no matter how much score you put up.. manually or via the playfield. It doesn’t move an inch.

Picture below of the TRUE evil switch

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#19 8 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Thanks for the picture. That helps.

Would probably help more if I got my facts straight though

Thanks for the help so far to both you, Mike and YeOldPin and everyone else. I appreciate it.

#20 8 months ago

0-9 coil could be locked up or burned which could explain your burnt 1’s relay switch. Confirm the 0-9 unit is set up and working properly.

The 1’s not accumulating a 10 is the carryover switch on the 1’s score reel. It needs to be closed when the score reel is at 9.

#21 8 months ago

Ok, so using your guys advice from before I decided to use my meter to check the coil on the 0-9 stepper unit... it looked fried and there was black soot all over the plunger...I cycled the unit manually and it was slow and weak

It tested the coil and (ironically) it reads 0.9... I am to understand that means the coil is toast right? It sure looks toast. If you guys can confirm it’s toast can you also let me know what part number I need? It’s so scorched I can’t read the code on it. Thanks (pictures below)

Side note: I also noticed the carry over switch on the tens unit is broken off so that will have to be replaced as well. That would explain why the 10’s doesn’t carry over to the 100’s reel on a full cycle but it doesn’t explain the 1’s and 10’s reel moving at the same time... but I guess with the discover of the 0-9 unit being shot (I think) we fix that first, correct?

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#22 8 months ago
Quoted from MikeO:

0-9 coil could be locked up or burned .

Bingo... it’s reading 0.9- 0.4 on the meter.

#23 8 months ago

0-9 unit

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#24 8 months ago

Coil is probably bad. I’ll send a diagram of 0-9. You’re missing the clapper.
Sounds like the carryover switch on the ones unit is always closed.

#25 8 months ago

Also, your part A-256 looks to be broken. That, the clapper and new springs (you’re missing one) can be obtained from Pinball Resource.

#26 8 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Also, your part A-256 looks to be broken. That, the clapper and new springs (you’re missing one) can be obtained from Pinball Resource.

Thanks very much

So I need:

Clapper
New springs
New Coil
2 end of stoke switches (broken)
1 carry over switch (broken)

I wonder if the two bells use the same coil as the 0-9 ? Maybe I can steal one of those for be time being to get my 0-9 operating so I can keep testing the unit.

Thanks again and thanks for the parts numbers!

#27 8 months ago

Yikes... this thing has really been messed with now that I see the two images together

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#28 8 months ago

Before you place your order take the existing coil apart. You could find the stop and plunger damaged, even the bracket that holds the coil in place could be split.

#29 8 months ago
Quoted from Impact93:

Yikes... this thing has really been messed with now that I see the two images together
[quoted image][quoted image]

When I got my SA the ones bell was missing. Prior to that I bought a King of Diamonds where the entire 100 bell unit was gone. At least they left me a little slack when they cut the wires (why they cut them instead of pulling off the spade leads is beyond me).

I agree with Mike-figure out everything you need before ordering. Nothing more frustrating than getting your parts and find you need one more.

Besides the schematic another good resource is the Gottlieb parts catalog, the pictures are informative and you’ll be more informed about part numbers.

#30 8 months ago

Also, 0-9 uses A-1496 coil. Bells use A-5143. Your Add Replay unit has an A-1496 you can borrow.

#31 8 months ago

Any progress or are you still waiting on parts?

1 week later
#32 8 months ago

I, too, have a Sing Along that has some issues, specifically in the 0-9 Unit. The Coil seems to be constantly engaged when the game is activated. I am not exactly sure where to even begin chasing this one down. Anyone have a suggestion for where to start?

Also, the 1000's reel doesn't reset. It does count up correctly, but when the game is started all but this reel resets and it has to be manually reset before the ball will eject for the game to start.

#33 8 months ago

On the 1000s reel issue I’d look at the switch on the DS relay. It might not be closing with the others on startup.

The 0-9 coil is powered by switches on the M & N relays. You might see if either is always closed.

Hopefully you have a schematic. It makes life a lot easier.

#34 8 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

On the 1000s reel issue I’d look at the switch on the DS relay. It might not be closing with the others on startup.
The 0-9 coil is powered by switches on the M & N relays. You might see if either is always closed.
Hopefully you have a schematic. It makes life a lot easier.

schwism - thanks for the reply! I am finding that the 0-9 coil AND the 1's reel coils both engage/lock at the same time and immediately when the ball is put into play/ejected. Have you experienced this kind of thing before?

I will check the relays you mentioned, but my thinking is that the same problem is causing both and will hopefully be related to a single fix.

#35 8 months ago

I’m guessing if the ones coil is engaged that is engaging the 0-9 coil.

The ones coil being engaged suggests a scoring switch is almost closed and putting the ball in play vibrates it enough to make contact.

If the score motor turns it would be a 5 point scoring feature (all of the 1s & 4s). 1 point features are along the sides outside of the 2s or at the bottom slings (not always, if lit it’s 10 points). I’d check all of these.

#36 8 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

I’m guessing if the ones coil is engaged that is engaging the 0-9 coil.
The ones coil being engaged suggests a scoring switch is almost closed and putting the ball in play vibrates it enough to make contact.
If the score motor turns it would be a 5 point scoring feature (all of the 1s & 4s). 1 point features are along the sides outside of the 2s or at the bottom slings (not always, if lit it’s 10 points). I’d check all of these.

schwism I can't tell you how much I appreciate your answers! So as I chase this down, I want to make sure I am looking in the right places. The score motor does turn fine. When you are referring to the one point features, you are talking about on the scoring motor, correct? Looking at the schematic, they appear to be hooked into Motor 1C. What is the "2s" you refer to and where is the "bottom slings"?

#37 8 months ago

Glad to help. This has always been one of my favorite machines.

See the attached picture. At the top are the 1s in the 4 colors. Each scores 5 points and to do so the score motor needs to run to count 5 points. Similarly at the bottom there are 4s in the 4 colors-red and yellow in the middle and white/green on the sides. These also are worth 5 points so the score motor needs to run.

The slings have the “10 points when lit” pointing to them. At the start of the game they are worth 1 point and change to 10 points when you get the red and yellow 1s at the top. Since they are only worth 1 point the score motor does not need to run.

On the upper left side of the playfield you’ll see the red 2 rollover. Next to it there are two posts with a rubber spanning them. Between the posts there is a 1 point switch. Similarly next to the white 2 rollover there are 3 posts, a rubber and a 1 point switch. The same is the case on the right side.

If any of the 6 1 point switches are closed you’ll continue to get points rung up and will run the 0-9 but the score motor will not run. Alternatively if any of the 8 5 point switches are closed it will be the same except the score motor will run. Given that you can at least narrow it down some.

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#38 8 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Glad to help. This has always been one of my favorite machines.
See the attached picture. At the top are the 1s in the 4 colors. Each scores 5 points and to do so the score motor needs to run to count 5 points. Similarly at the bottom there are 4s in the 4 colors-red and yellow in the middle and white/green on the sides. These also are worth 5 points so the score motor needs to run.
The slings have the “10 points when lit” pointing to them. At the start of the game they are worth 1 point and change to 10 points when you get the red and yellow 1s at the top. Since they are only worth 1 point the score motor does not need to run.
On the upper left side of the playfield you’ll see the red 2 rollover. Next to it there are two posts with a rubber spanning them. Between the posts there is a 1 point switch. Similarly next to the white 2 rollover there are 3 posts, a rubber and a 1 point switch. The same is the case on the right side.
If any of the 6 1 point switches are closed you’ll continue to get points rung up and will run the 0-9 but the score motor will not run. Alternatively if any of the 8 5 point switches are closed it will be the same except the score motor will run. Given that you can at least narrow it down some.[quoted image]

@schwism OK, so this is where what is happening for me diverts from what you describe: I don't have points constantly running up. The coil on the ones reel and the coil on the 0-9 engage as soon as the ball is ejected out for play. Score still rings up during play, but then some combination of events occurs and it will stop scoring anything but 100 point hits. This may or may not clear up during continued play, but the entire time play is occurring the 0-9 and 1 reel coils are energized. It will release momentarily sometimes as the score motor turns, but then immediately re-energize once the score motor stops.

I checked score motor at the 4A position to see if the ones there were stuck and it appears to be in order. You had stated previously to check M & N and they appear to be ok as well.

This started happening after I had to get in and manually trip the Start relay. I am not sure if that could somehow be related...

#39 8 months ago

I’m kinda fumbling in the dark here so I’ll throw out some thoughts.

Part of the startup sequence is the DS relay (mounted underneath the playfield) closes 4 normally open switches. These provide power to the 4 reels to move them to zero. When it does the zero switch in each reel opens so the reels do not turn. Once all reels are at zero DS opens again. This has to happen before the ball is ejected to the shooting lane. Question 1-if you remove the ball so it cannot be ejected do all reels stay at zero?

Before the ball is ejected there is no power to the playfield (flippers don’t work, scoring features don’t work). Question 2-assuming all reels are at zero what happens when you trip the ball trough switch (it is near where the ball comes out to the shooting lane)?

Per my last message there are a total of 14 switches that should be open unless triggered by the ball. Any one of those being closed will activate the N relay in the backbox. Back in post 17 I outlined what each of the four normally open switches on N do. Question 3-are all of the switches on N open?

In addition to the Start relay (SB) switches you might check the other DS switches just in case.

#40 8 months ago

@schwism you sir are a G*dsend! Found that two of the 1 point switches between the posts were closed, thereby causing my issue with the ones reel and the 0-9 Relay. I cannot thank you enough!

#41 8 months ago

That’s great. Adjusting switches like that can be tricky since you need the proper gap with the rubbers installed.

-1
#42 8 months ago

Its 100% 'broke' until its playing as it was intended. 1/2 'fixed' is a way to say you aren't so good at what you do, fixing things.

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