(Topic ID: 190215)

Gottlieb Sinbad 1/4A fuse blowing

By Lets

6 years ago


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  • 21 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by CactusJack
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#1 6 years ago

As the title says, 1/4A fuse blows, as soon as the game is turned on.

So, things I've tried...

Unplug all 5 displays while A1-J2 AND A1-J3 are still plugged into the MPU - fuse blows.
Unplug all 5 displays while A1-J2 IS plugged into the MPU & A1-J3 is unplugged from the MPU- fuse blows.
Unplug all 5 displays while A1-J3 IS plugged into the MPU & A1-J2 is unplugged from the MPU- fuse blows.
Unplug A1-J2 AND A1-J3 from the MPU - Fuse does NOT blow

Both A1-J2 and A1-J3 have been repined (the entire game has been repined).

I'm quickly running out of fuses . Any ideas?

Thank you!

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#2 6 years ago
Quoted from Lets:

Both A1-J2 and A1-J3 have been repined (the entire game has been repined)

It's possible that a pin is not in the correct position. Take a look at the manual where it lists the connectors, pins, and wire colors and match them to the connectors in your game.

Another possibility is that you might have a shorted bridge rectifier, a problem on your power supply, or possibly the lower connector on the power supply plugged in upside down or shifted over by one pin. Do *not* plug that one in without being absolutely sure of the correct orientation, or bad things will happen.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#The_Upside_Down_A2J1_Power_Supply_Connection

#3 6 years ago

Thank you for the assistance!

I've checked the location of all the wires multiple times...probably 5 times at least. Just checked them again, and they're correct, other than a few that don't exist (see images below).

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I'm pretty sure the lower connector on the power supply is also correct (again, see image below).

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A shorted bridge rectifier is something I haven't heard before. Somewhat noob here. How do I go about testing them (and where are they?)

Any clues on testing the power supply? I have a brand new spare, but I'm rather apprehensive to plug it in...and potentially burn it out.

If it's of any help. I also have a fully working Roller Disco (also a System 1 Gottlieb).

Again, thanks for the help!

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from Lets:

I'm pretty sure the lower connector on the power supply is also correct (again, see image below).

Yes, that's correct.

Quoted from Lets:I've checked the location of all the wires multiple times...probably 5 times at least. Just checked them again, and they're correct, other than a few that don't exist (see images below).

Are those two connectors the only connectors that you repinned? Or are there others as well?

Quoted from Lets:

A shorted bridge rectifier is something I haven't heard before. Somewhat noob here. How do I go about testing them (and where are they?)

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Testing_a_Bridge_Rectifier

However, if the 1/4 A fuse is the one for 69VAC, that circuit doesn't actually go through a bridge rectifier--it goes directly to the power supply.

So, Unplug the bottom connector for the power supply, put in a fuse, and see if it still blows. If it still blows, the problem may be on the transformer panel somewhere. If the fuse is fine, I'd suspect an issue with the power supply and install the new one.

#5 6 years ago

I repined virtually the entire game.

Yes, the 1/4A fuse is for the 69V. And with the lower plug on the power supply unplugged, it DOESN'T blow.

Guess *gulp* I'll plug in the new power supply and see what happens.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from Lets:

Guess *gulp* I'll plug in the new power supply and see what happens.

When you install it, only plug in the lower connector--leave the other two unplugged for the moment. If the fuse doesn't blow, verify that the output voltages are where they should be. Then turn the game off and plug in the other two connectors and give it a try.

#7 6 years ago

oops...too late

Installed the new power supply. Upon turning on the game, the Tilt light lights for a brief moment, then goes out and the Game Over lite lights. The 4 score displays come on (but kind of flicker), the Number of replays/Ball in Play display do NOT light up, and the kick out coil under the skirt energizes and stays energized. And the game doesn't "coin up" or start a game.

#8 6 years ago

Ok, looks like you have additional troubleshooting to do.

On the driver board, there is likely a shorted transistor for the kickout coil that may need to be replaced. I would address that first so you don't burn up the coil.

Next, press the reset button on the MPU to clear out the memory, turn the game off, then back on again, and see what happens.

However, it looks like there is some battery damage on your MPU. That will probably prevent the MPU from working. You can either attempt to clean that up, or replace it with an aftermarket board.

#9 6 years ago

Swapped out driver boards (I have an "extra", condition unknown) and yup, the kick out coil is no longer energized...but, the displays immediately come on, and appear to be "rolling". Somewhere, some time ago I was reading something about display issues and a rolling display...can't seem to find it now.

The MPU had been cleaned up, and bench tested ok. The reset on the MPU made no difference...and I just realized the back-box GI is out.

I'm seriously considering at this point to just spend the $$ and put in a PI-1/X4 ALL-IN-ONE BOARD.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Lets:

and appear to be "rolling"

Check your slam switches. They should be closed, rather than open.

Quoted from Lets:

The MPU had been cleaned up

From the photo, I can still see obvious signs of batter damage. Did you remove the affected components, neutralize the damage with zep, and sand down the traces to the bare copper?

Splashing a little vinegar on the affected area will not do much of anything.

#11 6 years ago

They're closed.

I didn't personally do the repair and don't know exactly what was done. I do know a couple other boards the "guy" repaired work fine (both Bally's)

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from Lets:

They're closed.
I didn't personally do the repair and don't know exactly what was done. I do know a couple other boards the "guy" repaired work fine (both Bally's)

Don't trust the condition of the slam and roll tilt switches. Follow online guides and jumper it on the MPU board. Fluttering displays is "almost" always a sure sign of open slam circuit.

#13 6 years ago

The 4 1n4004 diodes c6-c9 on the power supply create the bridge for the 60 and 42 volts. Replace all 4 of them. 1 or more is probably bad causing the fuse to blow.

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

The 4 1n4004 diodes c6-c9 on the power supply create the bridge for the 60 and 42 volts. Replace all 4 of them. 1 or more is probably bad causing the fuse to blow.

He already completely replaced the power supply.

-1
#15 6 years ago

I heard that powering up a system 1 without the displays connected can take out certain display driver chips.

#16 6 years ago

P R O G R E S S !

Jumpered C2 as per http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/#slam to bypass the slam switches. Game turns on (somewhat) normally. I don't believe the two relays under the playfield (Tilt and Game Over) are being energized.

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Game coins up, and when the start button is pushed one time, player 1 flashes zero (push a second time and player 2 shows zero also).

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HOWEVER, the game doesn't actually start (no flippers), and the Game Over light is still illuminated

#17 6 years ago

Is there any self test yet? On power up do you hear a relay operate?

#18 6 years ago

I'm not hearing any relays click on powering up, and upon starting a game there's no click either (I believe the Game Over relay (?) closes upon a game starting)

If I advance the test button to 13 (switches and solenoid test) all 4 score displays are blank, and the ball in play shows, 0...and nothing else happens.

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

I heard that powering up a system 1 without the displays connected can take out certain display driver chips.

That's not true. You may have misheard this: disconnecting or connecting the displays while the power is on will blow chips. As a general practice, you really shouldn't connect/disconnect anything while the power is on--it's better to err on the side of caution.

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from Lets:

I'm not hearing any relays click on powering up, and upon starting a game there's no click either (I believe the Game Over relay (?) closes upon a game starting)

Take a look at the relays and make sure the switch leafs aren't mangled--in rare cases, that can sometimes prevent movement.

Also make sure each relay actually has a spring on it and that it's properly connected.

See if you can move the relays manually and if they seem to work properly when you move them.

Quoted from Lets:

I'm not hearing any relays click on powering up, and upon starting a game there's no click either (I believe the Game Over relay (?) closes upon a game starting)

Perhaps a driver board issue? Check the transistors that drive the relays.

#21 6 years ago

I wonder if you have a bad game PROM? A System 1 board, with NO game prom installed, will allow you to "Start" a game. At least blanking all score windows, placing a 0 in player 1, and then just sit there doing nothing else since everything else is game specific and comes from instructions in the Game PROM.

But I can't remember if it will:

Allow you to add another player (2nd push, getting a 0 in player 2 window).

and/or

It will energize the outhole coil 1 time.

I am pretty sure it will play the start up tune but that is also controlled by dipswitches and might not use the chimes if there is a dipswitch read problem too.

Of course, if you are missing +28VDC for the coils, then you won't get any reaction from the playfield or the relays.

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