(Topic ID: 300226)

Gottlieb series 80 GI fuse popping

By Lunchbox90909

7 days ago


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  • Latest reply 5 days ago by Rikoshay
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#1 7 days ago

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum and also new to repairing and modifying pins so please take it easy on my rookie ways. I am currently working on a Gottlieb Volcano (series 80), during the process of a full LED swap I ran into an issue. Starting at the beginning i swapped all the backbox lights with no issue. Next i went after the playfield GI swapping all the bulbs from the top of the playfield with the unit plugged in but powered off (based on the note in the backbox stating to do any repairs or swaps with the unit plugged in ). After swapping all the playfield GI i powered on to check my progress and all play GI was out, all the other lights in playfield as well as backbox are all still working. Checked fuse, sure enough it was popped. removed all bulbs from GI and replaced fuse.... popped. so bad bulb is eliminated, suspect bad socket. checked continuity on empty sockets and there is a complete circuit on the empty sockets (this would mean a short somewhere correct??) next I removed the end wires from each group of GI sockets (the ones that connect to the tip of the bayonet bulbs, not the bare wire stapled onto the playfield and connected to the chassis of each socket). I believe i have every connection separated from the sockets. Now checking continuity on each individual socket reveals no connection, so no shorted sockets. But if i connect to the loose wires and any socket chassis i get a circuit. I did notice one more connection using the same wires i disconnected from the sockets which is on the leaf switch operating the ball save gate next to the ball shooter but that appears to have no bearing on the current issue. So this leaves me at the current completely lost position, I am under the assumption that the playfield GI is not connected at all to the Circuit boards in the backbox so i have mostly ignored that area. Attempting to trace the wiring (i dont have a manual) it appears the fuse runs up to a series of solenoids with leafs on top of them under the playfield (blue black black wire from fuse leaf switches to purple slate slate which is the wires i disconnected from each GI socket and continuity agrees), now the purple slate slate wires do jump from one solenoid/leaf to the next until they join the main wire harness running into the playfield and on to the sockets. Is there a section of this circuit i am overlooking or a component that i should check for a fault?? I am completely baffled since nothing was moved, i didnt even lift the playfield till after the issue showed up, only swapped working incandescent bulbs for LED bulbs and now i have no lights and endless fuse pops. Please help with any info or places to look, i understand there is a trick with soldering a bulb to a blown fuse but if i am understanding correctly that wouldnt do anything in this scenario since i have already isolated all of the sockets from one end of the circuit. I can provide pictures of the solenoid/leafs or any other component or area if that would be helpful. Thank you all in advance!!!

#2 6 days ago

Welcome to Pinside!
You can unplug your game while working on it. The only reason to leave it plugged in is so the service outlet will still work.

A circuit breaker is helpful for this. Use it in place of the fuse until you find the issue. You can make your own or buy some.
http://actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=CBSET http://firebirdpinball.com/circuit-fuse/ https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-and-using-a-fuse-breaker
Pinball Resource has the manual, and everything else you might need for any Gottleib: http://www.pbresource.com/pfplayfSS.htm

I'm not quite following this part:

Quoted from Lunchbox90909:

if i connect to the loose wires and any socket chassis i get a circuit.

This is where a manual will be helpful, so every reader of your post can understand exactly what you disconnected and where it should go.
The General Illumination circuit uses one wire for voltage and a different wire or braid for ground. There are multiple "strings" of GI, so one string might be fine if there is a break in the wire of a different string. All the bulbs on one string will have the voltage wire daisy-chained from bulb to bulb. If there is a break in that wire none of the bulbs past the break will work.

If you're testing your voltage wire with a multimeter you should have continuity between every GI socket but no continuity to ground. If you have continuity to ground I'd disconnect the connector for that GI circuit (use your manual) to isolate that from the voltage source. Then disconnect one socket at a time until you don't have continuity from voltage side to ground side. The last one you remove should be the problem socket.

Quoted from Lunchbox90909:

I did notice one more connection using the same wires i disconnected from the sockets which is on the leaf switch operating the ball save gate

This could also be shorted, you'll want to test and or disconnect it.

It's possible a small wire fragment or piece of solder is shorting one socket. Examine each one closely.

Let us know how it's going. Post pictures if you need to.

#3 6 days ago

Ok i apologize for my incorrect terminology, here is where i am at. The first photo shows a pair of GI light sockets that are chained together, the lower socket in the photo had the two loose wires soldered onto it (purple/slate/slate wire) from what i can see this is the daisy chain that runs through the whole GI circuit, every set of GI lights had a purple/slate/slate pair of wires soldered to it and they are all disconnected now as well as the ball save gate i previously mentioned. In addition the wire harness that connects the transformer to the playfield Gi lights is disconnected. when i do a continuity test between the loose wires and the lamp socket bases I do get continuity still despite all the wires being completely disconnected from the lamp sockets (shown in picture 2). The 3rd picture is of the solenoid/leaf switch bank i mentioned earlier that seems to be the first stop for the wires after the fuses and before entering the playfield. I will be ordering a manual for future reference but any help in the meantime is still greatly appreciated.

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#4 6 days ago
Quoted from Lunchbox90909:

(purple/slate/slate wire)

You must be a telephone person. I haven't heard anyone call it slate since I did tech support for 3M Telecom.

Quoted from Lunchbox90909:

Next i went after the playfield GI swapping all the bulbs from the top of the playfield with the unit plugged in but powered off (based on the note in the backbox stating to do any repairs or swaps with the unit plugged in ). After swapping all the playfield GI i powered on to check my progress and all play GI was out,

If the GI was working before the LED install it's probably not a wiring issue. Either a socket got moved and is now touching something it shouldn't or something got into one of the sockets and is shorting it out now.

If you test each socket with voltage wires (whatever color they are) disconnected, one lead on the voltage tab, the other on the ground braid you'll find the shorted socket. If you leave the voltage wire connected it could be any socket in the string shorting.

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#5 6 days ago

I actually am not a telephone person but i do a lot of technical stuff for fun so it sometimes helps to notice a difference in gray colors. Anyway i have gone through each socket individually and there is no continuity on any individual socket with wires disconnected. only continuity is between the disconnected wires and the grounded sockets.

#6 6 days ago

This leads me to believe there is no shorted socket but there is a short somewhere else in the wiring or components

#7 6 days ago

I also visually traced the ground wire (bare wire stapled to playfield) and i dont see any indication of it shorting to anything along the path, which if i am not mistaken if this was the case i would have also lost the playfield lights on top of losing GI lights since the playfield lights utilize the same ground wire.

#8 6 days ago

Ok found another detail..... in the first group of pictures i sent there is a picture of 4 solenoid/leaf switches, looking at the farthest one in the picture (closest to cabinet side) the top wires are the purple/slate/slate wires which seem to jump between each of the solenoid/leaf switches before entering the playfield, the leaf switch that starts it connects these purple/slate/slate wires to black/blue/blue, the black/blue/blue are the wires that run down the wiring harness thru the a7-p5 connector (currently disconnected) on to the fuse panel. If i manually push the leaf switch out of connection then the "short between the purple/slate/slate wire to lamp ground goes away.

#9 6 days ago
Quoted from Lunchbox90909:

If i manually push the leaf switch out of connection then the "short between the purple/slate/slate wire to lamp ground goes away.

Maybe one of those tabs got bent and is shorting.

#10 6 days ago

all tabs on those leaf switches are clear from each other, and the mounting screws and bracket show no continuity to the wiring so the mounting hardware is not shorted either. as mentioned before when i manually disconnect that leaf switch the purple/slate/slate wire loses its continuity with the lamp socket ground but the black blue blue wire remains a short to the lamp sockets

#11 6 days ago

well i am an idiot...... the "short" i have been chasing seems to be the transformer itself. early on i did find a lamp socket with its tab touching the base but i still had continuity from positive to negative on the sockets so i kept hunting. only after i had nearly every single bit of the circuit disconnected i found a schematic online and realized i am being dumb and the transformer is completeing the circuit since the gi lights on this pin are basically a standalone circuit so even with the fuse out there is a path thru to each positive and negative end. all in all i am dumb and sure enough the circuit is fine so i reassembled everything and it is working well. i will post pics of the machine once i finish putting in new flippers, rubbers, and reinstall the plastics.

Thank you so much for helping me with my madness YeOldPinPlayer

#12 5 days ago

your not an idiot or dumb man, just learning.

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