Gottlieb Score Relay

On Atlantis there are two 500pt relays (C and D). They're split among the white drop targets and the blue drop targets as well as the rollovers. So when you say the 500 pt relay engages, which one? (Or both, depending on which target is hit.)

But, assuming that C and D are activating, to reach the M relay (100 pt) and score it five times, the path goes through a score motor switch at 1A (to get the five pulses), and then has to go through make/break switches on E, D, and C in series.

So check the score motor switch at 1A, and the make/break switches on each of C, D, and E. One or more are likely dirty/open.

#4 9 years ago

ZZZ

Wickerman2

Pinside member

Cleaned score motor switches--most of them. That seemed to solve the 500 pt issue!!...but...somehow the rollover number sequence lights stopped lighting(that WAS working) afterwards. I'll get back at it tomorrow. May start a new thread to try to figure out other items, like why pressing the start button does absolutely nothing and I have to press start relay to get the game going.

#5 9 years ago

GTB

DirtFlipper

Inactive member

Games that have been sitting that long are generally going to need all the switch stacks tightened, and all the switches cleaned and gapped. So even the start button path involves eight switches in series that all have to be closed in order to complete the path to the Start relay. Each need to be checked/cleaned.

Just peek at the schematic starting at the Start relay and follow it left to right, working through each switch along the path back to the transformer.

#6 9 years ago

ZZZ

Wickerman2

Pinside member

Quoted from DirtFlipper:
Games that have been sitting that long are generally going to need all the switch stacks tightened, and all the switches cleaned and gapped. So even the start button path involves eight switches in series that all have to be closed in order to complete the path to the Start relay. Each need to be checked/cleaned.

Just peek at the schematic starting at the Start relay and follow it left to right, working through each switch along the path back to the transformer.

Thanks for the heads up. Will check the schematic when it arrives(ordered one earlier this week).

#7 9 years ago

ZZZ

Wickerman2

Pinside member

Quoted from DirtFlipper:
Games that have been sitting that long are generally going to need all the switch stacks tightened, and all the switches cleaned and gapped. So even the start button path involves eight switches in series that all have to be closed in order to complete the path to the Start relay. Each need to be checked/cleaned.

Just peek at the schematic starting at the Start relay and follow it left to right, working through each switch along the path back to the transformer.

OK, got the start button to work(switch was open that needed to be closed). NOW, the F relay in the backbox runs forever until I manually hit the A relay(reset completed)...the score reels all zero out but then the little F relay stepper just keeps on clicking around. If I hit the reset completed relay, it'll kick out a ball and start.

Tried cleaning the A relay and I cleaned the surface of the F relay (sanded and alcohol wiped). Any thoughts? I'm closing in on having cleaned every switch practically.

#8 9 years ago

GTB

DirtFlipper

Inactive member

The 'F' relay (00-90 unit mini stepper) is supposed to be activated by the Thousands (L) relay (i.e., the 00-90 unit steps whenever 1000pts are scored.

However, the path is shared with the reset path, and so the F relay is also activated whenever a switch on the A relay is closed and score motor switch 1A is closed.

So if the A relay is latched, the switch will close, the score motor will be running, score motor switch 1A will be pulsing closed, and F will be stepping. The AR relay needs to activate at the completion of reset to unlatch A.

Is the AR relay not activating on its own to unlatch A? Is the score motor continuing to run even after all the score reels are reset to 0?

#9 9 years ago

ZZZ

Wickerman2

Pinside member

It doesn't appear to be activating to unlatch A and yes score motor is still running after score reels to zero. If I manually unlatch A things will stop.

#10 9 years ago

ZZZ

Wickerman2

Pinside member

Found this response of yours regarding AR relay...could this be a gap issue with A/AR or a 2B problem if the AR is not activating? Tomorrow I will unclip the relay and start machine and watch more closely the AR but now the F only stops when I reach under A and tap it to unlatch/latch.

Quoted from DirtFlipper:
When the A relay is activated, this armature plate is pulled in. The yellow arrow is point to the armature plate of the AR relay. When the armature plate of the A relay pulls in, the armature plate of the AR relay pops up and latches the A relay armature plate in.

One thing to bear in mind is that neither the A or AR relays are locked in electrically. They are activated by switches closing, which briefly energize the coil, pulling the armature plates, and then the coils de-energize. So the only thing holding the plates is mechanical at that point.

When the A armature is latched in, the switches change state. If the plate isn't pulled in far enough, or if the switches aren't gapped correctly, then they may not change state (e.g., close or open).

The A relay controls the reset of the score reels. If the switches don't close, then the score reels don't reset. Usually this is an indication that the plate didn't get pulled in, or the switches have gap issues (or both).

The AR relay activates when all the score reels have reached the zero position, and score motor 2B closes. When AR activates, the armature plate is pulled in, which clears the way for the A relay armature plate to pop back out (unlatch). If the AR relay activates a subsequent time, it will have no effect on A, since A hasn't activated.

#11 9 years ago

GTB

DirtFlipper

Inactive member

On Atlantis, the AR activates under the same conditions as I noted above (which was for an El Dorado): all score reels have reached 0, and the 'reset' switch on each reel is closed (aka zero position switch, switch on the bottom of the score reel switch stack), and then score motor switch 2B closes.

So chances are that one or more of those switches isn't closing and/or is dirty.

The F relay running is just a side effect. Usually the focus point/symptom is that the score motor keeps running, and reset isn't finishing. That's really the thing you're debugging. But it sounds like it's just that AR isn't activating, which is likely one or more of the switches as mentioned.

#12 9 years ago

ZZZ

Wickerman2

Pinside member