(Topic ID: 201574)

Gottlieb Score Reels (with FP schematic)

By currieddog

2 years ago

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  • 14 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by currieddog
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider


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#1 2 years ago

Two different machines, two different eras, two similar problems. I have a Target Alpha and a Flipper Parade which are having intermittent score reel problems: TA with the 1K reel and FP with the 10s, and the problem is that when a lot of points are coming in the TA (can be any player) will tack on an extra 10K, and FP will not score the 100 due. Seems like a 9th pos. sw. problem, but they're clean and adjusted right, and today I thought that maybe eos sw. might be the culprit on TA, but no. So again, both are intermittent, and on TA what happens, for example, is that instead of having 18,000 it will be 28,000, and on FP instead of having 308 it will be 208. Both always test ok on individual scores, it's the big influx that messes them up. Any ideas?

#2 2 years ago

FP sounds like the reel just doesn't step fast enough. Have you gone through and cleaned it? Springs nice and tight? Losing a point could be either that the next score comes in while the reel is still energized from the previous one (EOS too close), or that the pulse for the score is too short and the EOS isn't keeping the real energized long enough.

TA sounds like it's taking long enough to go from 9->0 that the next 1000s pulse comes in and manages to step the 10k a second time. 9->0 is always the hardest step as it has to move all those 9s+0s switches. Again, need to make sure it's nice and free, and springs strong. Can also help to lessen the tension of all the 9+0s switches (as long as they still close correctly). You definitely want the 9th position switch to open as soon as possible once the reel starts moving to minimize the time that another pulse can get through to the 10k

#3 2 years ago

Most games' score reels have an end-of-stroke switch that makes sure input pulses last long enough. Are those working?

#4 2 years ago

The problem could be in either the score reel, or in the circuit that's driving it. To help isolate the problem you could jumper the coil on the misbehaving score reel with the coil on another score reel that is working properly so that both will get the same pulses. One coil terminal is probably common between all the score reel coils. Just connect the non-common terminal of the misbehaving coil to the non-common terminal of a good one. Maybe pick a score reel that's not next to the misbehaving one to avoid complications when carrying over from 9 to 0. Then make the game do whatever it needs to do to demonstrate the problem. If both score reels demonstrate the problem, the problem is upstream in the driving circuit. If one score reel works properly and the other doesn't, the problem is in the score reel.


#5 2 years ago

A lot of similar issues on my Out of Sight went away the more I played it. Same thing, cleaned,adjusted and the high number sticking. Now it works great (after several hundred plays).
Good to clean the individual Relay contacts too!.

#6 2 years ago

OK, just working on FP at the moment. All EOS and 9th pos. switches are good, the reel is clean, and I replaced the spring for the heck of it. Nada. It's really like it gets overwhelmed when 10s and 1s are coming in at the same time.

#7 2 years ago

Switch dogs on motor set correctly?

#8 2 years ago

I believe so. Like I said, it always tests correctly, it's just when a big influx of points happen.

Target Alpha possibility: PU A switches?

#9 2 years ago

Well, I thought I might have had something, but no. A wire had broken off the backside bakelite part of the 1's relay, and someone had TUCKED IT BACK IN WITH THE OTHER WIRES IN THE BUNDLE, STILL UNATTACHED. Oi

#10 2 years ago

Focusing just on FP at the moment. I tried blocking the 1's from adding, but that did nothing. I'm certain, after going over it approx. 73x, that the 9th pos. 10's sw. and the 100's EOS sw. are good as it always tests OK, even when I add 10s as fast as I can. Relays good, too, and no floating contacts. Anybody see something here I might have missed?


#11 2 years ago

Testing good means nothing here, you know they work fine normally. It's a timing issue, as it only occurs when lots of stuff is happening, so just because the switch does open and shut doesn't mean it's opening and shutting fast enough and at the right times.

Also, at some point you're going to just have to accept losing points here and there. It's an EM, losing points is practically built into the rules (can't score 500 while score motor is running, etc). I'd be much more concerned with gaining extra 10ks than losing 100s

#12 2 years ago

Must ... get ... all ... points. Haha, no, it just drives me nuts when something isn't working right. Major or minor, doesn't matter.

#13 2 years ago

Missing the "carry" from 90 to 100 is different from losing points from the motor running. And losing 100 points on a 4 digit score game is significant. The circuit for carries is very simple - only 2 switches.

Pinball (resized).png

#14 2 years ago

I had traced that circuit back to the S and T relays, which needed cleaning bad, but now I took another look and whadda ya know, the SL-Red on S (which is in the Add Hundreds Unit circuit), and the Red-Y on T both had poor solders and came loose when I gave a tug. Now the score is working correctly, and also not adding so much when the ball drains, which always seemed odd. Thanks HowardR for making me take another look down there.

I'm going to check this as resolved and start a new one for TA, though I may be back for this one as it's doing a host of other weird stuff.

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