(Topic ID: 246168)

Gottlieb score motor stops just short of normal stop - PROBLEM SOLVED

By valveamp

4 years ago


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0King-of-Diamonds-Work-14 (resized).jpg
KoD Score Motor broken wire (resized).jpg
King of Diamonds Score Motor 1C (resized).jpg
King of Diamonds switch dogs (resized).jpg
Gottlieb KoD score motor bad position (resized).jpg
Gottlieb KoD score motor good position (resized).jpg

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#1 4 years ago

Hi. I have a Gottlieb King of Diamonds. The game works well, but there is one small problem that has multiple impacts. The score motor stops short of where it is supposed to stop. When this happens, if you just push it to required stop (about a 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch) the game will work fine. The results of stopping just short of the stop is that some of the targets don't score and ring the bell. These are the targets which do not run the score motor, like 1 point targets, for example. The rotation to the correct stop sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I have not determined if there is some repeatable, consistent way to always make it work. It doesn't seem to be just one stop location every time. I know there are several switches on the game that starts the motor running. I'm not really sure which switch stops the motor. If someone has some insight into where I should look I would really appreciate it.

#4 4 years ago

Hi. Let me try the suggestion from MarkG first. If that doesn't work, I'll post a photo. Thanks.

#5 4 years ago

I may be looking at the wrong switch, I'm going to double check. What is the switch dog?

#6 4 years ago

Here are 2 photos. The first one is the score motor in the "bad" position. The motor has stopped before the switch "falls" into the cam valley. The second photo is the score motor in the good position. You can see the switch is fully in the cam valley. Maybe someone can indicate which one is 1C. I think switch bank 1 is at the bottom of the photo. From Mark, the red-white wire is on the top of the #1 stack, in this photo orientation. It looks to be closed, but, maybe, it's not really. I have to look at it closer. Maybe I'll try to adjust it a little. Be good to get a confirmation that this is the correct switch. I see what look to be red-white wires on that switch, but there is also another set of wires that could be considered red-white at the bottom of this switch stack (bottom in this photos). However, that switch is fully open, so that motor shouldn't be turning in that case.

Gottlieb KoD score motor bad position (resized).jpgGottlieb KoD score motor bad position (resized).jpgGottlieb KoD score motor good position (resized).jpgGottlieb KoD score motor good position (resized).jpg
#9 4 years ago

PhilGreg,
Thanks for the link. I think my problem is different, because, I think, you had a problem where something (a reset) was happening when it shouldn't have happened due to a timing problem. In my case, nothing is happening like that. The problem is the score motor stops early and the switches do not drop into the cam valley as they should. This cause some of the scoring not to work. Any scoring that doesn't go through the timing motor does not work. My timing problem is that the motor stops early, but it doesn't do that in every case. I haven't found a consistent case that always causes the problem to happen or not happen.

MarkG,
Thanks for the photo mark up and explanation. I had forgot what A and B meant relative to switches and I had no clue what "S" and "L" meant. Regarding 1C. I wasn't sure that it was closing all of the way and thought there may be a slight gap. So, I adjusted it slightly just to get a little more pressure on the contacts. Also, I cleaned the contacts not with paper, but with a little contact cleaner paper that I got from Pinball Resources. Unfortunately, neither action fixed the problem

So, here is a question, if the contacts on 1C are actually closed as the motor is moving, and opening up 1C, as the switches move into the cam valley, stops the score motor, what's stopping the score motor early? As best as I can tell, when the motor stops, the 1C contacts are still closed. Doesn't that indicate that there is something else going on that is controlling the power to the score motor? if 1C is closed, how can the motor be stopped?

#10 4 years ago

Problem Solved!
It turns out that the red-white power wire is not directly attached to the 1C switch. It’s directly attached to the 1B switch just below it. As I was playing with the score unit, I saw a flash coming from the back of the 1 switch stack. Upon closer examination, I saw the tiny wire (bare) jumper and it was broken. The interesting thing is that the wire may have been making intermittent contact, but when I moved it off (i.e. no contact), the score unit still worked intermittently, like it had before. I’m guessing that, perhaps, there was enough momentum in the score unit to move the 1C switch into the cam valley, sometimes, but I’m not sure. Also, it appears that switch 1C does not deliver power to the score motor at all times. With the jumper wire off, the score motor still runs. I’m guessing that there is another switch contact that powers the score motor for most of it cycle, but it switches off and relies on 1C to complete the power cycle (???). Anyway, putting in a new jumper from 1B to 1C solved the problem. It now scores reliably. Not sure I would ever found that if I hadn’t seen the arc flash. Thanks to everyone for your help. I learned something about the game and how the score motor switches work. See the attached photo of the broken wire.........

KoD Score Motor broken wire (resized).jpgKoD Score Motor broken wire (resized).jpg
#13 4 years ago

Thanks, Wolverinetuner.
Yes, I saw all of the switches that turn on the score motor on the schematic as you mentioned. I just didn't know how long they stay on. 1C takes over the power control somewhere in the cycle. Also, thanks for the link on the score motor operation. I'll take a look at it.

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