Gottlieb Schematic - Where are the EOS switches?-Big Top stepper issue [Solved]


By essmeier

1 week ago


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bally_switches (resized).jpg
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#1 10 days ago

Edit: Solved the actual problem; it was a case of residual magnetism on the L (Rollover Series) relay.

Got a minor problem on the infamous Possum, aka Gottlieb Big Top. When I earn an extra ball by hitting a rollover, the stepper on the Continues to Play unit advances correctly, but the coil on the stepper often stays engaged until I hit something else to score. Then it stops.

I would assume that the End of Stroke switch on the stepper should open when the coil engages and that should cut off power to the coil right away, rather than having it stay energized until the ball hits something.

This problem really isn't much of an issue, as there are a couple of pop bumpers right below the rollovers and I almost always hit one right after the rollover, thus turning the coil off.

Still, I'd like to take a closer look at the EOS circuit and see what's going on.

BUT - I can't find anything on the schematic that looks like an EOS switch for the Continues to Play unit. In fact, I can't find anything on the schematic that looks like an EOS switch at all.

I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious here, but could someone please enlighten me about this?

Relevant part of the schematic attached; full schematic is here:

https://images.pinside.com/5/d0/ae/5d0aec1798e673fc2776bdc816244ba9c0ef8a13.pdf

Charlie

ctp_unit (resized).jpg

#2 10 days ago

It doesn't work like that. Either the motor 2C switch or the C relay is sticking on.

#3 9 days ago

OK. I'll look into those things. Thanks.

But...

What, then, does the EOS switch on that stepper do?
How is it depicted on the schematic?

I still don't see anything on that schematic labeled as an End of Stroke switch, so I remain curious about how they're indicated, or if they're indicated at all...

...or if I'm just overlooking them.

#4 9 days ago

See the wiring for the C relay, 'on Add Continue to play unit'. If the C relay is sticking on, then that switch not opening could be the cause of that

#5 9 days ago

That EOS switch is opening correctly. That's part of what has me baffled. I'm guessing that the score motor switch at 2C is a likely culprit. I'll have a look at that tomorrow.

This wouldn't be the first time I was barking up the wrong tree...

#6 9 days ago

Check if the C or L relays are also sticking on, then you'll know if it's the motor or them

#7 9 days ago

The C relay is definitely sticking on, but I haven't looked at L yet.

Gotta go check on some pasta. Possum will have to wait.

#8 9 days ago

OK, this one turned out to be a really easy fix. Switch on C was good; the problem was residual magnetism on the L relay. It's just a little too eager to remain in place once engaged.

To test it, I stuck a piece of paper in between the armature and the coil and the problem went away. I'll fix that with a piece of cellophane tape.

I'd still like to know about the EOS switches on Gottlieb schematics, though. How are they shown in the diagram? Are they shown in the diagram?

#9 8 days ago
Quoted from essmeier:

I'd still like to know about the EOS switches on Gottlieb schematics, though. How are they shown in the diagram? Are they shown in the diagram?

They're shown like any other switches. Here are the EOS switches for the Ones and Tens on Big Top.

Pinball (resized).png

#10 8 days ago

Got it. They're there, but they aren't labeled as such. I've seen them labeled as EOS switches on Williams schematics, so I thought I'd see similar labeling on Gottlieb's.

For comparison, I've attached a section of a schematic from a Williams Doozie that shows the EOS switches on the score reels and identifies them as such.

Thanks for clearing that up, Howard.

All good.

doozie_schematic (resized).jpg

#11 8 days ago
Quoted from essmeier:

Got it. They're there, but they aren't labeled as such. I've seen them labeled as EOS switches on Williams schematics, so I thought I'd see similar labeling on Gottlieb's.
For comparison, I've attached a section of a schematic from a Williams Doozie that shows the EOS switches on the score reels and identifies them as such.
Thanks for clearing that up, Howard.
All good.

Not really that surprising to hear. Even though I like Gottlieb EM engineering and construction, Williams EM documentation was the best in the industry.

#12 8 days ago

I did some work on a Bally Skill-Score (not a pin) machine recently and it had the old style representation of switches and which used numeric codes, i.e., ("78") rather than abbreviations ("OR-BLK") for wire colors.

bally_switches (resized).jpg

Aside from those quirks, I found the Bally schematic to be pretty intuitive and I liked the fact that the wire colors were labeled often - at every junction. On Gottlieb schematics, you sometimes have to look all over the place to find the wire colors.

Bally also published a book for their operators that explains what's what:

http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/intro%20to%20bally%20flipper%20games.pdf

If Gottlieb published one, that would make deciphering their schematics a bit easier to do.

I'm not aware of such a book, though. That's how I end up posting questions here.

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