Royal Flush
Gottlieb, 1976Game has been working well for the week that I've owned it and last evening it seemed to not reset the 1st player score reel to 0 when starting a new game. Old score stays and new scoring is added to the old score. (great for getting new high scores!!). Am I correct in assuming that the Z1/Z2 relay in the backbox is the culprit, or the player unit in the backbox? Total newby here, sorry if I don't have the terminology correct. I can see why this hobby is so addictive!
Quoted from TeaHaus:not reset the 1st player score reel to 0
Looking at the schematic, I see 2 possible causes. The answers to these questions will help decide which it is.
1. Does the Z1 relay activate briefly when this happens?
2. Which other players' scores (if any) have this same problem?
Quoted from HowardR:Looking at the schematic, I see 2 possible causes. The answers to these questions will help decide which it is.
1. Does the Z1 relay activate briefly when this happens?
2. Which other players' scores (if any) have this same problem?
Hello: Just tried a 4 player game. Pressed reset and player 1 and player 2 scores don't reset to 0. Player 3 and player 4 reset fine. During game, scoring for all players is accurate and all reels advance. To answer your specific questions,
1. No noticable movement from the Z1 relay when starting a new game
2. Player 2 does not reset to 0
The reason I said intermittant is that first thing this morning, player 1 reset to 0 as per normal. Once I started a 2nd game, back to the issue of not resetting.
Quoted from currieddog:The resistor may be going, but check the PU.[quoted image][quoted image]
Hopefully not the resistor since that is beyond my capabilities!! I'm home this morning, supposedly working, but have been playing pinball for the past 30 minutes and the scores are resetting exactly as they should.
Also make sure the disc on the player unit in the head is clean, wiper fingers are not sticking and wiper wires are solid. If some of the contacts on the disk are dirty/not making good contact it can intermittently cause a reset cycle to just sort of drop out as if the digits have reset on 1/2 or 3/4 even though they haven't completely, or at all.
Quoted from TeaHaus:Hopefully not the resistor since that is beyond my capabilities!!
It just involves buying a new one (eBay) and soldering it in. Check the PU first as noted in post 6.
Cleaned the contacts in the PU and the wipers. I did solder a loose connection a few days ago when I was having issues with the ball in play lights not lighting in the backbox. I'll recheck that connection and make sure my soldering job was good. Thanks for all the tips........a work in progress!! 
So I've cleaned the rivets and the wipers with 600 grit sandpaper and cleaned off with alcohol. One of my previous solder joints looked a little suspect. (wire from the centre of PU to one of wipers). I had resoldered this a few days back when it fixed my ball-in-play light issue. Once I resoldered the joint, pin seems to be working fine, score reels resetting when they're supposed to...........but I'll wait a couple of days before I declare this issue fixed. Thanks again to everyone who has offered up advice. Much appreciated!
What is the purpose of the resistors on Z1 and Z2, anyway? Are they supposed to partially power the relays enough (but not enough to activate them) to help assure they don't drop out while the reels are resetting? Or arc reduction on switches involved?
Quoted from frenchmarky:What is the purpose of the resistors on Z1 and Z2
MarkG provided a clear answer here. I upvoted his post and you might, too.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/resistor-for-change-relay#post-5163291
Briefly, the resistors provide a path to ground for residual current that would otherwise arc across the Player unit rivets when the Player unit cuts power to Z1 or Z2.
So still getting intermittent player 1 and player 2 score reels not resetting. I think it's something with the AX relay since when I fiddle around with that and turn the machine on again, it tends to reset the scores. Worked all day yesterday, today had the same issues again.
Quoted from TeaHaus:still getting intermittent player 1 and player 2 score reels not resetting.
What part of the reset sequence in currieddog 's post is failing?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-royal-flush1976-intermittant-score-won-t-reset-to-0#post-5237986
Quoted from HowardR:What part of the reset sequence in currieddog 's post is failing?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-royal-flush1976-intermittant-score-won-t-reset-to-0#post-5237986
Hi Howard: Not sure to be honest. The reason I thought it's the AX relay is because when I manually fiddle with that, the next time I turn on the game everything resets as it should. But maybe it's something in the backbox and the PU. I've tried watching what happens in the backbox and don't see what is happening with the Z1......but I think I need another pair of hands to press start so I can carefully watch the process. Thanks for your tips and advice. This is my first EM so I'm still getting used to the terminology etc.
Quoted from TeaHaus:The reason I thought it's the AX relay is because when I manually fiddle with that,
Could be AX. They're very tetchy and the make/breaks on them need to adjusted just right. Pull the cotter pin that holds it on and get right down and look very closely as you manually push the plastic armature. Are the contacts making solid contact as they move? and are they disengaging from one side to the next completely?
Since it does work sometimes and doesn't seem to be the player unit and acts like might be AX I'd tighten the switch stack screws on it, clean all the switches and adjust them if needed if you haven't yet.
Quoted from currieddog:Could be AX. They're very tetchy and the make/breaks on them need to adjusted just right. Pull the cotter pin that holds it on and get right down and look very closely as you manually push the plastic armature. Are the contacts making solid contact as they move? and are they disengaging from one side to the next completely?
For those who don't know, here's the definition of currieddog's term "tetchy" as it relates to EM pinball troubleshooting: moody, menapausal, stubborn, irritable, willful, temperamental, prone to change itself at any instant. Womanish.
Quoted from fixintoplay:For those who don't know, here's the definition of currieddog's term "tetchy"
Haha!! I would put it more towards 'PITA,' as least when the AX is involved.
Quoted from TeaHaus:I think I need another pair of hands to press start so I can carefully watch the process
Or a pushbutton hooked across the start button. Or an Alligator clip jumper wire on each side of the start button.
Quoted from HowardR:Or a pushbutton hooked across the start button. Or an Alligator clip jumper wire on each side of the start button.
I think I'll just force my wife or my daughter to help out!
Greetings from rainy Canada once again.........still struggling with getting my 1976 Gottlieb Royal Flush to reset the score reels correctly at the beginning of a new game. Has been working fine for the past 10 days when I first began this thread. I am still awaiting my schematics but since I'm in Canada, shipping can be painfully slow. Thanks to some of the experts here I have been able to check a few things but all to no avail. I thought it may be the AX relay and it seemed when I manually energized it, it would tend to do something that made the scores reset the next time I started a game. But today that part is not working. The start-up sequence seems to be working as it should, PU is working and all the wipers have been cleaned. The only part that I see no movement on is the Z1 relay. I've attached a short video showing that it doesn't seem to be doing anything during the start-up. Is this normal? The other relays all seem to have some sort of movement when energized. Any help/advice is appreciated
There may be score motor sw. involved as well. Do you have the card-usually stapled to the inside of the cabinet-that tells what each does? Or the manual?
Quoted from currieddog:There may be score motor sw. involved as well. Do you have the card-usually stapled to the inside of the cabinet-that tells what each does? Or the manual?
Thanks for the reply! I've ordered the schematics (have not arrived yet) and I have the manual that someone sent me in jpg form. Nothing stapled on the inside of this cabinet. Do you mean the little labels thought the unit denoting the various relays etc?
Quoted from TeaHaus:The only part that I see no movement on is the Z1 relay. I've attached a short video showing that it doesn't seem to be doing anything during the start-up. Is this normal?
Z1 should activate during startup. See step 5:
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from TeaHaus:Do you mean the little labels thought the unit denoting the various relays etc?
No, they look like this:
Bowling Queen score motor sw. (resized).jpgThanks for the tip to look at page 7 Howard! Do I assume then that I should look at the 3rd sw. motor 2c L pos? From the manual this switch resets the ax
and bx relays, which I think seem to cause these intermittent reset issues I'm having.
Sorry, forgot to mark this as solved. After cleaning, adjusting etc etc, it came down to a pair of wipers on the PU were not connected.....soldered a small wire to connect them and voila, everything works. Strange thing is, I know I had looked at this before when it was working and I swear those two wipers did not have a wire soldered on to connect them........thanks to everyone for the advice!
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