(Topic ID: 237812)

Gottlieb Roto target scoring issue


By Willillist

2 years ago

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  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Willillist
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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3B21743E-5B1F-4651-BC65-7BB2130DA895 (resized).jpeg
Goucho Roto Target 2 (resized).jpg
Goucho Roto Target (resized).jpg
Capture (resized).PNG

#1 2 years ago

Hi all,
I’m in the middle of getting a Gottlieb Gaucho going and a problem I’m having at the moment is the Roto target scoreing improperly. When you hit a 1,2,3 it always adds one extra point but it scores properly on 4,5 and star any ideas on what I should be looking for? Also I’m attempting this with a manual or schematics which is always fun.

#2 2 years ago

I don't have the schematic either (you should get one ASAP), but do the numbers go to different relays? I see that they're tied in with the RO sw.

#3 2 years ago

Hard to say without a schematic, but there was a similar question on the forum recently. Have a look at
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-contest-roto-target-issues#post-4859482

If your Roto target is wired similarly, it could be that one of the normally closed score motor switches that is supposed to block one of the five pulses isn't opening when it should. Only the lower scoring targets would be affected.

You could unplug the game and manually turn the score motor. Watch every normally closed switch carefully to make sure that it opens when it should. Also check for bent solder tabs or other possible shorts on those switches.

/Mark

#4 2 years ago

Well, the most important chunk is blurry, but you can kind of see that the different scores go in different directions.

Capture (resized).PNG
#5 2 years ago

Thanks for the schematic currieddog. Here's one possibility:
Goucho Roto Target (resized).jpg
Assuming that the C relay is the "add Roto Target points" relay, the C relay switch at the bottom of the schematic along with the Score Motor 1A switch just above it generate 5 pulses that get fed into the Roto Target along the red path to add up to 5 points to the score. Depending on the position of the Roto Target, the four normally closed Score Motor switches to the left each block one of the 5 pulses from getting to the 1 point relay (not shown). If Score Motor switch 3B (?) were stuck closed, the 1, 2 and 3 point positions would each get an extra point added since the 3B switch wouldn't open or block its pulse. The 4 and 5 point positions wouldn't care since they don't use the Score Motor 3B switch.

#6 2 years ago

Ok so after messing with it for several hours today the only relays I see that pertain to the Roto target are left target relay as right target relay. I looked over the score motor repeatedly and nothing seems out of sorts with it. I specifically checked score motor 3b and it looks fine I did clean switches on the score motor seeing if that was the problem but of course it wasn’t. Kinda stumped on this one at the moment any other thoughts from anyone?

#7 2 years ago

How did you check the 3B switch?

Here's an experiment you can try using an alligator clip test lead:
Goucho Roto Target 2 (resized).jpg
- Clip one end of the test lead to wire 5 and leave it there.
- Clip the other end of the test lead to wire 1.
- Put the Roto Target into the 1 point position.
- Tap the Roto Target. You should get 5 points because you've bypassed the four normally closed score motor switches.

- Next move the test lead from wire 1 to wire 2.
- Put the Roto Target into the 1 point position.
- Tap the Roto Target. You should get 4 points because Score Motor switch 2C opens to block one of the five scoring pulses.

- Move the test lead from wire 2 to wire 3.
- Put the Roto Target into the 1 point position.
- Tap the Roto Target. You should get 3 points because Score Motor switches 2C and 1B each block one of the five scoring pulses.

- Move the test lead from wire 3 to wire 4.
- Put the Roto Target into the 1 point position.
- Tap the Roto Target. You should get 2 points because Score Motor switches 2C, 1B & 3B all block scoring pulses.

- Remove the test lead altogether.
- Put the Roto Target into the 1 point position.
- Tap the Roto Target. You should get 1 point because each of the four normally closed switches is blocking a scoring pulse.

If this is what you observe then the Score Motor switches are working as expected.

#8 2 years ago

I cleaned the 3b switch and made sure it was opening and closing properly. I started trying to test as you were saying Mark but I was unsure if you meant to jump these wires on the score motor or on the Roto wheel itself I started jumping from the score motor and 4c to 2c gave me 4points 4c to 1b gave me 3 points 3b to 1b also gave me 3 points 3b to 4c gave me 2 points and no jumper at all also gave me 2 points. Dan anyway to get a clearer shot of that schematic so I can see the wire color off the Roto wheel.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from Willillist:

I cleaned the 3b switch and made sure it was opening and closing properly.

So the switch contacts are separating, but there may still be a short across the switch on the solder lugs or elsewhere. The only way to know for sure is to test the switch with a meter.

Quoted from Willillist:

I started trying to test as you were saying Mark but I was unsure if you meant to jump these wires on the score motor or on the Roto wheel itself

It shouldn't matter where on a given wire you attach your test lead. Clipping onto one end or the other should give you the same result unless there's a break somewhere in the middle. If you have access to the same wires on both the Score Motor and the Roto Target, try the experiment in both places to make sure the results are the same.

Quoted from Willillist:

4c to 2c gave me 4points 4c to 1b gave me 3 points 3b to 1b also gave me 3 points 3b to 4c gave me 2 points

Can you repeat the experiment using the numbers I added to the schematic? Since each switch has two wires, "4c to 2c" doesn't tell me which two wires you tied together.

#10 2 years ago

Ok so I redid this and got the same results at the Roto target as at the score motor. I went 1 to 5 and got 4 points. 1 to 2 and got 3 points. 3 to 2 and got 3 points and 3 to 1 and got 2 points and with no jumpers I’m still getting 2 points and this was all done with the Roto target set on the one point.

#11 2 years ago

Ok I’m starting to think it’s the way the fingers are jumped on the Roto disc not sure if that may cause it but it was defiantly messed with by someone previous to me

3B21743E-5B1F-4651-BC65-7BB2130DA895 (resized).jpeg
#12 2 years ago
Quoted from Willillist:

Ok I’m starting to think it’s the way the fingers are jumped on the Roto disc

Yes, that definitely does not look right.

#13 2 years ago

There's a Goucho Roto Target on ebay at the moment. If nothing else it offers pictures to compare to.

#14 2 years ago

pbr does sell the lightweight braid that ahould connect these, if they dont float it will cause issues

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

pbr does sell the lightweight braid that ahould connect these, if they dont float it will cause issues

You can also use solder wick.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

You can also use solder wick.

pbr

1 month later
#17 2 years ago

Bought the schematics and I’m still not finding the issue anyone with a gaucho able to take some pictures of the stacks on the score motor I have a few jumpers that go stack to stack that looked like they have been messed with. Or maybe in the manual it tell what each stack switch is up to??

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