(Topic ID: 239597)

Gottlieb Raven System 80b Help!


By Pinball-DOOD

1 year ago



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  • 57 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by Pinball-DOOD
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 1 year ago

    Hey all!

    This is my first time working extensively on a system 80b pin and I’m wondering where I should start. I will say that the system 80b ground mod has been done (just to clarify). Buddy of mine bought it from a guy who said it worked perfect recently then started having trouble.

    When you pop the game on, the lights come on, but displays are out, flippers are working and all other solenoids, but most of the solenoids are out. Every fuse except one under the playfield is blown. The helicopter blade spins endlessly too. Hope you all can help me get started! Got some pictures of the boards, the displays that have burn marks in the corners, and what appears a toasty cap on the display? Thanks

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    #2 1 year ago

    Bump for help

    #3 1 year ago

    Here’s what happens upon initial start up

    82C43903-E038-4461-8473-FF9476104C16 (resized).jpeg
    #4 1 year ago

    Trying reseating the PROM1 chip or gently pressing on the daughter board while turning it on. Could be issues with the solder joints. I’m having similar booting issues with my 80b game because of that.

    #5 1 year ago

    Blowing all the fuses like that seems odd. I would go over the underside of the playfield carefully and make sure you have no shorts in the wiring. Do the fuses blow when you change them? Also verify you have exactly 5v coming out of the power supply in the backbox. Verify your bridge recifiers are not blown. You may need to desolder the wires from them to test them accurately.

    #6 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    Trying reseating the PROM1 chip or gently pressing on the daughter board while turning it on. Could be issues with the solder joints. I’m having similar booting issues with my 80b game because of that.

    Ahh, gotcha. I’ll definitely try that!

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Blowing all the fuses like that seems odd. I would go over the underside of the playfield carefully and make sure you have no shorts in the wiring. Do the fuses blow when you change them? Also verify you have exactly 5v coming out of the power supply in the backbox. Verify your bridge recifiers are not blown. You may need to desolder the wires from them to test them accurately.

    Upon replacing the fuse, the solenoid will work for a few minutes but then blows. Sounds great, How would you go about testing the power supply for 5 volts? I’ll definitely check the Bridge Rectifiers!

    #8 1 year ago

    I should definitely check for shortages though, that seems super probable

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Blowing all the fuses like that seems odd. I would go over the underside of the playfield carefully and make sure you have no shorts in the wiring. Do the fuses blow when you change them? Also verify you have exactly 5v coming out of the power supply in the backbox. Verify your bridge recifiers are not blown. You may need to desolder the wires from them to test them accurately.

    You’re right that is odd. With my gold wings the fuse kept blowing for the knocker. I checked everything on the board and couldn’t find the issue. What I ended up finding was on the coil someone replaced the diode as it looked different than all the other ones. The band was facing the wrong side. I flipped the diode according to the schematics and problem solved. So long story short. You may want to double check the diodes for all the coils blowing fuses. Other than that solder slashes are always my favorite thing to find. Especially if someone else did a bunch of work on this machine before you got it.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    You’re right that is odd. With my gold wings the fuse kept blowing for the knocker. I checked everything on the board and couldn’t find the issue. What I ended up finding was on the coil someone replaced the diode as it looked different than all the other ones. The band was facing the wrong side. I flipped the diode according to the schematics and problem solved. So long story short. You may want to double check the diodes for all the coils blowing fuses. Other than that solder slashes are always my favorite thing to find. Especially if someone else did a bunch of work on this machine before you got it.

    Ahh, gotcha. Is it possible that all of these solenoids could have been worked on you think?

    #11 1 year ago

    What do you guys think about the display? Is it normal to have slight burn marks in the corners?

    #12 1 year ago

    With all the blown fuses that's odd. I'm lead to believe that maybe the driver board is not working. Maybe try looking it over for burnt components or poor quality solder repairs. I can see a sketchy looking component on the driver board pictures above. The brown resistor between the two button transitors.

    I ended up buying a Rotten Dog driver board, that solved a bunch of my issues. It also had a direct ground on it.

    Also I'd check the 5v at the board from the power supply in the back box. Making sure the boards are getting 5v. Todd Tuckey has a video on checking that Ina video called "reflowing solder on power supply" or something.

    #13 1 year ago

    Its totally possible someone worked on all coils but not likely. I just like to point out the easiest things first. Out of all of the issues I’ve had that make me bonkers trying to figure out the fix, I’ll turn to the forums and get 20 million suggestions and get told with extreme confidence that it’s either A, B, or C and I need to buy logic probes and get an engineering degree....and it ends up being the simplest thing. Like a solder splash or a loose component touching something or a screw came out and it’s wedges between pieces.
    Always consider what everyone else suggests for sure but sometimes I like to just remind myself to make sure to cover the little stuff.
    Definitely following this thread I hope you find it soon and it’s not a major headache.

    #14 1 year ago

    To get it working your going to want to get a manual, it will help you a great deal with system 80b. To start unplug the wires coming out of power supply going to the mpu and check the power on the power supply for 5volts. Almost every system 80b there were cracked solder joints so I always reflow the pins and tighten the transistor screws also on all the boards, thats how the get ground. Here is a pic

    gott80bpsl_1 (resized).jpg
    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from davidlldennis:

    With all the blown fuses that's odd. I'm lead to believe that maybe the driver board is not working. Maybe try looking it over for burnt components or poor quality solder repairs. I can see a sketchy looking component on the driver board pictures above. The brown resistor between the two button transitors.
    I ended up buying a Rotten Dog driver board, that solved a bunch of my issues. It also had a direct ground on it.
    Also I'd check the 5v at the board from the power supply in the back box. Making sure the boards are getting 5v. Todd Tuckey has a video on checking that Ina video called "reflowing solder on power supply" or something.

    Sounds great! Thanks for the help! I’ll do that and wow, I just noticed that toasted resistor. Holy crap

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    Its totally possible someone worked on all coils but not likely. I just like to point out the easiest things first. Out of all of the issues I’ve had that make me bonkers trying to figure out the fix, I’ll turn to the forums and get 20 million suggestions and get told with extreme confidence that it’s either A, B, or C and I need to buy logic probes and get an engineering degree....and it ends up being the simplest thing. Like a solder splash or a loose component touching something or a screw came out and it’s wedges between pieces.
    Always consider what everyone else suggests for sure but sometimes I like to just remind myself to make sure to cover the little stuff.
    Definitely following this thread I hope you find it soon and it’s not a major headache.

    I know exactly where you’re coming from! Thanks! Excited to delve into the world of 80s Gottlieb repair

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from crlush:

    To get it working your going to want to get a manual, it will help you a great deal with system 80b. To start unplug the wires coming out of power supply going to the mpu and check the power on the power supply for 5volts. Almost every system 80b there were cracked solder joints so I always reflow the pins and tighten the transistor screws also on all the boards, thats how the get ground. Here is a pic
    [quoted image]

    Sounds good, I definitely did that first thing. I’ll check voltage though. Thanks!

    #18 1 year ago

    By the way! Anyone know where I can the board clips to mount the board? The ones on this Raven are broken

    #19 1 year ago

    Great planes electronics, pinball life or pinball resource .

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from crlush:

    Great planes electronics, pinball life or pinball resource .

    Thanks!

    #21 1 year ago

    About to see the game soon, I will keep you all updated. Thanks for helping!

    #22 1 year ago

    Is anyone aware of the purpose for that burnt resistor on the driver board? How can I test if it’s okay with my digital multimeter?

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

    Is anyone aware of the purpose for that burnt resistor on the driver board? How can I test if it’s okay with my digital multimeter?

    Its definitely not okay, but you can get new ones from Arrow.com for literally pennies with free next day shipping.

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Its definitely not okay, but you can get new ones from Arrow.com for literally pennies with free next day shipping.

    Terrific, I’ll do that. Thanks. Do you happen to know the value by chance? I don’t have the manual on me

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

    What do you guys think about the display? Is it normal to have slight burn marks in the corners?

    Yes those displays have that spot on them. Mike

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from psd4me:

    Yes those displays have that spot on them. Mike

    Great! Anyway to test them?

    #27 1 year ago

    The first things I always do with 80b games is rebuild the power supply, do the ground mod (in cabinet and running dedicated ground for each board), clean all board edges with an eraser , and check the edge connectors (repair and replace when needed). Doing that takes a lot of the flakeyness out of the machine.

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    The first things I always do with 80b games is rebuild the power supply, do the ground mod (in cabinet and running dedicated ground for each board), clean all board edges with an eraser , and check the edge connectors (repair and replace when needed). Doing that takes a lot of the flakeyness out of the machine.

    Terrific, thanks!

    1 week later
    #29 1 year ago

    Reflowed solder on the power supply and still nothing! I did find this though. The driver board was significantly burnt. Does anyone know where I can find a replacement resistor and 5 volts regulator?

    60B6CA38-D383-4018-92A5-E1C2BCEE4614 (resized).jpeg72848CEF-82DF-457E-A039-E819A979B1F7 (resized).jpeg

    #30 1 year ago

    The traces all had continuity still, too

    #31 1 year ago

    Maybe this would work?

    F1FFE1CB-8507-4894-98F3-FFE8EDFA3D36 (resized).png
    #32 1 year ago

    I have had such bad luck with purchases off Ebay of late, USPS has "issues" which caused the packages to get lost for weeks. They finally showed up, but in some cases took 4 weeks to get from Florida to Connecticut.

    #33 1 year ago

    Forget about the driver board until you have the CPU booting consistently. So disconnect the driver board and focus on getting a good 5VDC. The capacitor on the power unit in the bottom of the game should be replaced if it hasn't been done recently.

    It looks like some ground mods have been done at the power unit in the bottom of the game.

    So focus on the power supply in the head. You should have a copy of the manual to review the schematics to make voltage measurements to the power supply. My memory is foggy on the input voltage, but I believe it to be around 12VDC. A common
    failure point is the variable resistor for adjusting the 5VDC on the power supply. Usually a good idea to replace this if there is one
    on this application.

    Once you have a good 5VDC connect up the PS to the CPU -- with the driver board disconnected. Also then measure the supply voltages for the displays as they will be a good indicator of a successful boot completion. Again refer to the schematics for proper voltages. The common failure point on the CPU is the daughter board. It is difficult to remove but if you are having boot problems this board should be replaced. A good alternative is the Piggy Duex:
    https://www.pinitech.com/products/gottlieb_piggydeux.php

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from minnesota13:

    Forget about the driver board until you have the CPU booting consistently. So disconnect the driver board and focus on getting a good 5VDC. The capacitor on the power unit in the bottom of the game should be replaced if it hasn't been done recently.
    It looks like some ground mods have been done at the power unit in the bottom of the game.
    So focus on the power supply in the head. You should have a copy of the manual to review the schematics to make voltage measurements to the power supply. My memory is foggy on the input voltage, but I believe it to be around 12VDC. A common
    failure point is the variable resistor for adjusting the 5VDC on the power supply. Usually a good idea to replace this if there is one
    on this application.
    Once you have a good 5VDC connect up the PS to the CPU -- with the driver board disconnected. Also then measure the supply voltages for the displays as they will be a good indicator of a successful boot completion. Again refer to the schematics for proper voltages. The common failure point on the CPU is the daughter board. It is difficult to remove but if you are having boot problems this board should be replaced. A good alternative is the Piggy Duex:
    https://www.pinitech.com/products/gottlieb_piggydeux.php

    Terrific, sounds great. Where can I find this resistor on the power supply? Chances are it needs replacing anyway. It’s definitely not a ground issue because every ground mod has been done everywhere. Thanks

    #35 1 year ago

    have you ever verified 5volts coming from power supply yet?

    #36 1 year ago
    Quoted from crlush:

    have you ever verified 5volts coming from power supply yet?

    I have not. Could you maybe provide instruction on how to do so? Does it have to do something with testing at the various test points? Thanks

    #37 1 year ago

    1. Fuses blowing: If the mpu board is not coming up correctly(you have nothing on displays), no data is being sent to the control chips on the driver board. The driver board does not have a circuit to shut off the coils while waiting for the mpu to send valid data. That is why it is common for a loud clunk to be heard when a system 80 game is first turned on. Without the MPU control signals, those coils will stay locked on until the fuse blows. There is an article on PinWiki on modifying the driver board to add a circuit to shut off all the coils when the board is first turned on. You might consider making those mods to your driver board.
    2. I think your MPU board is NOT coming up correctly. You need Leon's test chip. If you have a chip burner, the program code should be on PinWiki. Leon's test chip and his documentation will give you a starting point to bringing the MPU back to life.

    Until the MPU is running, you are just wasting time on other stuff.

    #38 1 year ago

    OOS right now on these. I plan to solve this inventory problem [again] but it won't happen until after Allentown Pinfest. These are only getting built 10x or so at a time due to lighter sales. If sales/requests pick up, I'll build them out in larger numbers. Last time I ran out of a component being used, now I'm out of PCBs. Just have to order more up

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinworks:

    1. Fuses blowing: If the mpu board is not coming up correctly(you have nothing on displays), no data is being sent to the control chips on the driver board. The driver board does not have a circuit to shut off the coils while waiting for the mpu to send valid data. That is why it is common for a loud clunk to be heard when a system 80 game is first turned on. Without the MPU control signals, those coils will stay locked on until the fuse blows. There is an article on PinWiki on modifying the driver board to add a circuit to shut off all the coils when the board is first turned on. You might consider making those mods to your driver board.
    2. I think your MPU board is NOT coming up correctly. You need Leon's test chip. If you have a chip burner, the program code should be on PinWiki. Leon's test chip and his documentation will give you a starting point to bringing the MPU back to life.
    Until the MPU is running, you are just wasting time on other stuff.

    Quoted from pinworks:

    1. Fuses blowing: If the mpu board is not coming up correctly(you have nothing on displays), no data is being sent to the control chips on the driver board. The driver board does not have a circuit to shut off the coils while waiting for the mpu to send valid data. That is why it is common for a loud clunk to be heard when a system 80 game is first turned on. Without the MPU control signals, those coils will stay locked on until the fuse blows. There is an article on PinWiki on modifying the driver board to add a circuit to shut off all the coils when the board is first turned on. You might consider making those mods to your driver board.
    2. I think your MPU board is NOT coming up correctly. You need Leon's test chip. If you have a chip burner, the program code should be on PinWiki. Leon's test chip and his documentation will give you a starting point to bringing the MPU back to life.
    Until the MPU is running, you are just wasting time on other stuff.

    This is extremely helpful, thanks!

    Where can I find Leon’s test chip? Will installation solve the issue?

    #40 1 year ago

    Is it possible to send the MPU out for repair if I am unable to get her working? I unfortunately lack knowledge of in depth system 80b MPU repair. I am hoping to get it running as soon as possible

    #41 1 year ago

    Bump for MPU help! Hoping I can send this board out to get it fixed! I’m afraid to cause any damage to the MPU as I am not entirely confident with this era of Gottlieb

    #42 1 year ago

    Disregard this post

    #43 1 year ago
    Quoted from BaymenCoach:

    ChrisHiblerpinball.com

    Thanks!!

    #44 1 year ago

    Make sure you have 5VDC from the power supply before you send off your MPU board. Do you have a meter?

    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from minnesota13:

    Make sure you have 5VDC from the power supply before you send off your MPU board. Do you have a meter?

    Yeah! Do I put one lead on the pin connectors on that Power Supply and one lead at any test point? Sorry I’m not familiar with 80b

    #46 1 year ago

    Todd has a good video on how to test and adjust the voltage. crlush pointed out where the volts are adjusted earlier this post:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-raven-system-80b-help#post-4913370

    #47 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    Todd has a good video on how to test and adjust the voltage. crlush pointed out where the volts are adjusted earlier this post:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-raven-system-80b-help#post-4913370

    Perfect, thanks man!

    #48 1 year ago

    So the 5 volt adjustment pot is on the power supply?

    #49 1 year ago

    Also, can someone provide a link to anywhere that sells Gottlieb circuit board mounts? The MPU is just taped to the back of the backbox haha

    #50 1 year ago

    Yes...

    And at least they didn't use a nail gun.
    Many Gottlieb 80 series used FSTP series mounts.
    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=134

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