(Topic ID: 232224)

Gottlieb Raven - Ramp Issue


By cperro

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Benhurr
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_1190 (resized).JPG
IMG_1189 (resized).JPG
IMG_1180 (resized).JPG
IMG_1178 (resized).JPG

#1 1 year ago

Hi everyone,

Just started having an issue with my ramp with my Gottlieb Raven. The ramp won't stay in the up position. It will try to move up but then it won't lock in place. I was wondering if anyone could provide some insight on this. I see there are 2 switches and it looks like were both barely opening previously, I've just adjusted them to open more. My first question is are they suppose to be open when the ramp is up? I'm wondering if it could be a problem with the coil? I notice the coil is similar to a flipper coil so I'm wondering if it burnt out since it wasn't switching to lower power once the ramp was upright? Thanks.

edit: Something to add. It seems to stutter and up and down and then it will stop for a while, and then start up again.

#2 1 year ago

Hi Cperro
Got a similar problem with a gate on my Stargate, the problem seems to be mechanical but after change many parts without resolved it, I check switches and it was the first 1 close at isle who opened too late so I adjust it closest to the came and it works good for now.
Don't know if it is the same mechanical and switches function but I hope it could help you.
Have fun

#3 1 year ago

benhurr thanks for the reply. Do you mean the switch near the ramp where there are 2 switches? If so I made sure they opened up when the ramp lifts up. I have also replaced the playfield transistor with no luck. It almost looks like there is a connection that isn't closed since it will stutter up and down and then stop for a bit, and then do it again after a while. Are there any other switches related to the ramp that I am missing. I know in the schematics it shows an 'on-ramp switch', I was guessing that is one of the 2 switches near the ramp, is there another switch that I am missing maybe? Thanks!

Edit: Could it also be somehow something to do with the coil?
Edit 2: Also, I replaced the driver board with one that had the ramp previously working so it can't be related to L16.

#4 1 year ago

Sorry Cperro but I don't have schematic...it also could be the coil. Switch it with another one with the same number to try if it works better or test ohm value between coil to compare with one working ( unsold common wire before) also test diode if there is one on them)
Could you send pictures of mecanism and also switches concerned on electric schematic

#5 1 year ago

I've attached the relevant portion of the schematic for the ramp (The relevant portion is L16). I've also attached the manuals picture for the physical ramp itself. When the ramp goes up, the EOS switch opens and the ramp will then stay up. I've just tried a new coil today and the exact same thing happens. As I have stated earlier, I have also replaced the playfield transistor for the ramp. I almost feel like there is just a bad connection somewhere but finding out where that is, is difficult. The ramp will just go up and down irregularly. I've uploaded a video of what the ramp does to youtube that you can look at as well (

)

IMG_1178 (resized).JPGIMG_1180 (resized).JPG
#6 1 year ago

Great i got a better look now.
So the problem could be a bad wire connection as you says but the coil works so it could only came from the ground wire number 9.
But it could also be the diode switch. Try by replace the switch with another same one and also look if the switch opened early when the coil is moving by pull up the ramp manually.
The switch might be opened at the top beginning of the ramp movement.

#7 1 year ago

Looks like ramp moves with the light flashing in the inserts, I would replace the diode and see if that works.

#8 1 year ago

Thanks for the replies.

@benhurr I have jumpered the ground connection with no luck, and the coil was replaced so it shouldn't be the diode on the coil either. I'll check the coil that I removed to see if that diode was blown/dead to be sure though, I'll reply again once I have tested that. I've jumpered the EOS switch so it would be closed the entire time and the same thing happens. I'm pretty sure I've jumpered every connection except for the one between the driver board and the transistor on the playfield. I have checked continuity between the edge of the driver board and the transistor and my multimeter provided a constant tone so I thought the connection between there would be good.

@crlush Technically its suppose to do that when the ramp moves up or down. There are 2 switches on the "on-ramp switch"that open, the EOS and a light switch. One of them changes how the lights flash (can't be seen in the portion of the schematic I attached).

#9 1 year ago

I've tested the diode on the original coil and it seems to be fine, I used the following device to test it (amazon.com link ») and it showed up as a diode.

#10 1 year ago

How does that tester work? Are you supposed to be able to test with that tester without removing the diode? Normally you have to cut the diode of to test it.

#11 1 year ago

I did cut it out. I replaced the coil once this issue was happening so with the coil that I removed from the cabinet, I cut out the diode and threw it in the testing device.

#12 1 year ago

Sorry for my wrong explanation but I was talking about a possible diode on the switch...If there is one.
Did you follow the wire 144 to the A3 master driver board. It could be a bad transistor...unplug A3j3 connector on A3 and test transistor (works as a diode so only one way to read values) and compare it to another one works with the same references on it (has it is on system 3...don't know on others system) you might have a diode tester on your multimeter if not put it on ohm (values where wrong but you might have same values on other transistors.)
You says that the second switch is for the light but I don't see this on your video...does it works well when switch close?
If there is an identical switch under the playfield, switch them to try if it works better.
Could you also send a picture of the light switch schematic?

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from Benhurr:

Sorry for my wrong explanation but I was talking about a possible diode on the switch...If there is one.

Ah okay, there is no diode on the switch, I've attached an image of the switches that I meant, they are leaf switches under the playfield. Both switches are closed when the ramp is down and open when the ramp is up (image attached of ramp down and switches closed). When the ramp is up, a part of the ramp forces the switches open.

I'll explain how the ramp works. The ramp is down when the power is off. The ramp is typically pulled up during gameplay (coil energized) unless a series of targets or rollover switches are hit. Then the ramp will come down (coil de-energized) and it will go back up once the ball is lost or once the ball goes up the ramp. Like I said, there are two switches, one switch is an EOS switch for the coil and the other has to do with the lights on the playfield near the ramp.

Quoted from Benhurr:

Did you follow the wire 144 to the A3 master driver board. It could be a bad transistor...unplug A3j3 connector on A3 and test transistor (works as a diode so only one way to read values) and compare it to another one works with the same references on it (has it is on system 3...don't know on others system) you might have a diode tester on your multimeter if not put it on ohm (values where wrong but you might have same values on other transistors.)

I have already swapped with a driver board where the ramp worked when I checked last and the same symptoms were seen from the ramp. So this leads me to believe that the driver board is not the issue. But I feel like I've checked everything at the same time...

Quoted from Benhurr:

You says that the second switch is for the light but I don't see this on your video...does it works well when switch close?
If there is an identical switch under the playfield, switch them to try if it works better.
Could you also send a picture of the light switch schematic?

I've attached a picture of the schematic for the lights that I was talking about, it technically has nothing to do with the circuit for the coil for the ramp though, it's just that there are 2 separate switches which are controlled by the same mechanism (the ramp being up or down).
IMG_1189 (resized).JPGIMG_1190 (resized).JPG

#14 1 year ago

So I just went into test mode and during "step 17 : relay and solenoid test", the ramp went up but stayed in the up position and stayed like that until I turned off the machine. I'm guessing it's suppose to go back down after the solenoid test so that is a little confusing to me. I feel like if it does that then perhaps its not a wiring issue but something else? Any insight from anyone since I'm a bit confused at the moment as to what it could be. Thanks!

#15 1 year ago

So if the coil stays up during test mode that prove A3 board is Ok.
If the ramp goes down, check at switches that close it.
The one after the ramp and the one when ball is lost. Look if they are close or open and try by invert there action by putting something between contact if closed or opened them if there are closed and look how ramp react now

#16 1 year ago

At start pinball pull the ramp up but if there are one of the 2 switches that tell it to be down the ramp goes down and pull it up again because one switch is in wrong position at start.

#17 1 year ago

Sorry I think I'm a little confused. I don't think there is a physical switch that controls whether the ramp is up or down. The switch that is at the ramp is only an EOS switch so it just acts like a flipper in that sense. I'm guessing the MPU? (or driver board or maybe something else?) keeps track of whether the correct conditions are met for the ramp to go down during gameplay. Then that would tell the driver board to have the ramp go down? There is nothing that I can find in the schematics that tell the ramp to go up or down. Does this make sense?

I also noticed when I achieved an extra ball the ramp stayed up for a few seconds while the game changed music and did some flashy stuff to tell you that you got an extra ball, then it went back to the irregular stuttering. But, I repeated the same thing in another game and in that case, the ramp stayed down until the extra ball flashy sequence was over and then it went back to irregular stuttering.

Could this be related to the MPU in any way? This just feels really weird and just doesn't make sense to me. Thanks for all the help so far!

#18 1 year ago

Also, one other thing to note, the ramp does not go down when you hit the proper targets or rollover switches. The ramp is suppose to stay down once you hit the 4 back targets or the 3 rollover switches at the top of the playfield and neither of these seem to change the behaviour of the ramp. It still goes up and down irregularly.

#19 1 year ago

Yep you are right I was looking at a gameplay video and there is no switch to pull it down...and opened when pass over switches up to flippers...If it came from MPU it probably be a sad connector...Clean them all and switches too.

#20 1 year ago

There are still some weird things going on with the test mode. The ramp actually lifted when Lamp 12 was actuated in the relay and solenoid test mode. But the ramp is actually Lamp 16 which seems kind of weird.

#21 1 year ago

So many forum pages on this website concerning this ramp...
I've ears that 4 drop targets must be hit to pull down the ramp so maybe the problem cames from those targets or from connector that plug them to A3 board or transistor that pull them up...

#22 1 year ago

I am definitely starting to dislike this ramp. I've checked out a number of the posts about the ramp as well but none of them had the same symptoms that my ramp is having of course...

Ya its the 4 top targets or the 3 rollovers that cause the ramp to go down. I'll have to trace back those wires and see if there is anything related to that.
Just to let you know the Lamp 12 does not have to do with either of these, it has to do with the 4 "snipers" (drop targets) which shouldn't have anything to do with the ramp.

1 week later
#23 1 year ago

Needed to step away from this, was getting pretty cranky about this ramp. Still don't really know what's going on. If it's a edge connector or wire is there an easy way to check to make sure that a wire/edge connector are bad?

#24 1 year ago

You might shunt all ground wires on any gottlieb system pinball as it is preconised on pinrepair.com...and try after
Then check any switches on playfield if there's not a wire unsold...also clean them all with sand paper.
To control resistance on a connector put your multi on Ohmmeter and test wires (pinball off and don't care about + or - )...it can ring with less contact so check at the Ohmmeter and might have 1.
The better way is to scratch any pin on connector and spray contact cleaner...wait for an hour before push on.
Look any switch sometimes they can be locked by there carbon contact.
The most important is to shunt all ground wire 1st...that's what I done on my Stargate and no other transistor burns...also add a common wire who was forget on a double switch and everything works fine for so long after...

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
€ 8.40
$ 299.00
Displays
Boston Pinball Company
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 14.50
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
$ 7,899.00
Pinball Machine
Little Shop Of Games
$ 800.00
Playfields
Pinball Playfields
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 3.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Pimp
From: $ 5,799.00
Pinball Machine
Great American Pinball
From: $ 11.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 229.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 79.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside