(Topic ID: 271950)

Gottlieb Playball Vari-Target


By Craig_Myers

13 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 11 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by weeze
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 13 days ago

Picked this machine up 2-3 weeks ago as a project. The “runners” weren’t advancing, the base lites didn’t come on properly, but the Vari-Target worked. I finally have runners advancing like they should for each type of hit, the base targets light up and put a man on like they’re supposed to, but the Vari-Target has stopped resetting. The U relay just sits there and spasms -like it’s opening closing rapidly. In my adjustments, I also adjusted the switch that rides in the Bakelite and closes when the Vari-Target is activated - they were uneven and dragging horribly.

I’ve checked the contacts on the U-relay, they close properly when it activates, and I’ve reset all of the switches on the motor in my other switch cleaning/setting efforts, and have double checked the one at 2C on the motor. Coil resistance is 32 Ohms.

What am I missing???

#2 12 days ago

What happens if you use a pair of jumper cables to jump 24V power from the terminals of the coin door lockout coil to the terminals of the U relay? Does the U relay pull in all the way and stay locked in until the varitarget lever resets?

Is he metal plate on the U relay riding properly on the hinge tab and not hanging up?

#3 11 days ago

Yes - 24 volts from the orange wire on the lockout to the brown-red wire on U trips the relay and it stays tripped until I remove the jumper.

#4 11 days ago

Ok, that gives confidence that the U relay is operating properly and does not have a bad coil.

But you say that when the score motor turns during simulated game play, the U relay just sits there and quivers (does not firmly pull in)? Next, I would test the motor switch 2C by shorting together the tab ends of that switch during simulated play and determine if the U relay will properly engage. At least switch 2C is easily accessible as it is the most outside switch (farthest outboard from the score motor axle) at the topmost level of position 2. You can find the brown-red wire and the other wire, which appears to be red-green-white.

If the U relay pulls in when you short the tabs on switch 2C, then you have a switch issue (either contact faces not fully conducting electricity or a failed (cracked?) solder connection where the wires attach to the tabs. If the U relay continues to quiver or spasm when you short switch 2C, you likely have a wiring issue or a failed solder connection at the red-bown terminal of the U relay coil.

Lee

#5 10 days ago

Hi Lee, thanks for the help. I tried what you said. The U relay is cycling in a deliberate pattern with the motor, but it’s like the signal is late on the white-silver wire (1c, 2nd from the inside) that connects through U to yellow black that resets the target. If I hold the u relay closed as it cycles, the target resets. I was going to post a video, but I guess I can’t.

Totally new to the EM world. If I check resistance across the switch with a multi-meter and it’s close to zero, it should be good...yes? All of the switches on 1c, 2c, and U pass this test when closed.

#6 10 days ago

Craig, checking resistance across a switch with a multimeter isn't "always" straightforward. Depending on the circuit involved, there can be other parallel paths with a lower resistance that are involved and the meter will read those paths instead.

Ok, your last post says that the U relay appears to be cycling in a pattern with (the rotation of) the score motor. If I interpret the schematic correctly, the U relay should stay locked on through its own hold switch until the Vari-target lever arms are reset and both arms are at zero position. It sounds like either your U relay is not staying locked on long enough to energize the vari-target reset coils, or, one/both of the zero-position vari-target switches is not conducting when the lever arm is pushed in.

Try to check out: 1) the hold switch for the U relay (green-black wire) and make sure that is clean and making good contact when the U relay pulls in, and 2) the vari-target zero position switches are closing/conducting when the lever arm is pushed in. To be clear, the zero-position switches are the ones with the green-black wire where the end of the switch is in a vee shape and it rides on the edge of the bakelite.

If you still can't resolve, maybe I can take some close-up photos of the involved switches on my machine and you can check the gaps and positions of your switches vs the photo.

Lee

#7 9 days ago

Lee, that got it! The zero position switches weren’t fully closing.

Now...it Tilts. I tried to play (with kid gloves even) 4 games and never made it past ball 3. Always on a single, but not every single, but always either a Vari-target or the left single flipper lane when it happened, and I think a man on third, so a run would be scoring. I’m at a loss as to where those circuits would meet up. It didn’t do this when I started, and I haven’t even touched the big relay bank in the back were the XB relay lives. The Ball In Play unit does take a little bit (5 to 60 seconds) to reset when you first turn the game on, but I was going wait to tackle that until I had everything else working. Since both the Tilt and Ball In Play touch the XB relay, could these be related?

#8 8 days ago

Craig, as of today, I'm out of town for the long weekend, away from my machine and the schematic. Hopefully, someone will have some ideas for you.

In the meantime, I would suggest proceeding to locate the tilt relay on the schematic and read across to determine the number of tilt relay switches in the game. Should be 4 or 5. One will be the pendulum tilt and another the ball roll tilt mechanisms, but there will likely be at least 2 other normally open (NO) switches that when closed, will energize the tilt relay. I am guessing there will be a weighted NO switch attached to the underside of the playfield and maybe another such switch located in the backbox. Try to find all the tilt switches and inspect their operation. One of the switches may be gapped too close or have wires that are making intermittent contact.

#9 8 days ago

That did it. It was the switch in the head. I had thought I’d found them all, but never occurred to me there would be one back there - makes perfect sense why it’s there. Thanks for your help and have a great holiday!

#10 8 days ago

Grreat.
Sounds perfect. Playing some Play Ball on the July 4 holiday!

#11 2 days ago

I just had a bunch of problems with the vari targets on my BATTER UP. Everythihg was straightened out on the "U" relay and I think I looked at what maybe was the "C" altho I dont recall exactly what the "C" was for"............BUT the catch and release for the targets are on the "U"
Picture of "MAYA" for your approval. 8 weeks old.

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