The ball count issue sounds like a normally open (NO) switch is in the closed position. You would need to look at the circuit that includes the ball count advance solenoid. Look for the ball count advance solenoid on the schematic and find the switches in the circuit that send power to the ball count advance solenoid. Look for any misadjusted switches.

It would be the same process for the ball launcher/kicker. Find the ball launcher/kicker solenoid on the schematic and work back through the circuit to see what switches send power to that solenoid. You'd be looking for a normally closed (NC) switch that was open.

If you have problems identifying the circuit switches, you can post portions of the schematic and we can help you find the switches to adjust and/or clean...

The center launch circuitry is a little elaborate, so pull up a chair and see if this makes sense.
Playball Ball Count (resized).jpg
What should happen is that when the ball drains:
(1) the Ball Return switch closes which activates the (2) Q/Ball Return Control relay.
When the (2) Q/Ball Return Control relay activates it closes the (3) Q relay switch which in turn activates the (4) P/Add Ball Count Unit relay.
When the (4) P/Add Ball Count Unit relay activates it:
- closes a switch (not shown) to start the score motor
- closes a (5) P relay switch to hold itself on until the end of the score motor cycle
- closes another (6) P relay switch to fire the (7) O/Ball Return relay
- closes another (8) P relay switch to fire the (9) Add Ball Count Unit

Based on your description I think all that is happening in your game, but double check to be sure. From here though I think the rest isn't happening. That should include:

When the (7) O/Ball Return relay fires it should open the (10) O relay switch to cut power to the (4) P/Add Ball Count Unit relay once the score motor has completed one cycle, or 1/3 of a turn.

I suspect that your (4) P/Add Ball Count Unit relay is firing and staying active which causes the score motor to keep turning and the (9) Add Ball Count Unit to keep counting up. If that's the case, check that the (10) O relay switch, and (11, 12) two score motor switches are all opening when they should.

The right flipper issue may be related but will take a little more investigation.

/Mark

It should show as "ball shooter" with a coil symbol below it. I'm referencing a Pro-Football schematic, but it should be similar...

I agree. There are a few things that are confusing, suspicious or just plain wrong in that part of the schematic. And I didn't mean to imply that one problem might fix the other... but I hoped so because the right flipper button issue doesn't make sense to me yet.

The O relay will hold itself in once you manually trip it through the path at the very top of the schematic in reply #4. If the O relay doesn't fire on its own, that too would explain what you're seeing. Check the (6) switch in the schematic above and possibly the Score Motor 4C switch to the right of it. They're both in the path that should fire the O relay. If the P relay fires we can rule out the DB2 switch as a possible problem.

You need to sort out why the O relay won't fire. That's likely the root cause of most or all of the other problems.

If you manually close the O relay while the P relay is on and it holds itself on, that says that its lock in circuit is working (O, M & L relay switches at the top of the schematic in reply #4.). If it doesn't hold itself on the coil may be bad or it may be that there's a broken wire somewhere so that the coil isn't getting power at all. Here are some things you can try:
- use an alligator test lead to connect the maroon-yellow wire on the P relay solder lug to the green-black wire on the O relay solder lug. The P and O relays should now fire together. That would prove that the O relay coil is good.
- use a bulb tester (described elsewhere in this forum) connected to the solder lugs of the O relay coil to see if it ever gets power.
- with the game unplugged, clip one lead of your meter set to its lowest resistance setting to the O relay solder lug with the green-black wire. Clip the other lead to the orange-black wire on the other side of the (6) P relay switch in the schematic above. If you manually close the P relay your resistance reading should drop from whatever it is normally (maybe 10 ohms or more) to something less than one ohm. That would prove that the P relay switch is making good electrical contact when it closes.
- if the (6) switch tests good, move the lead from the orange-black wire to the white-green wire on the other side of the score motor 4C switch. Manually turn the score motor until that switch closes, then manually close the P relay too. You should again see the resistance drop to an ohm or less if both switches are working properly.

You'll have to elaborate. What contacts? When do you tap them?

You might want to concentrate on the problem with the ball count solenoid circuit to see why power can get to the ball count solenoid.

When the machine is reset, the ball would be sitting in the ball shooter and the ball count would be on ball 1. The only way the ball count could advance would be through a switch on P relay. So the P relay coil would need to be energized.

To get P relay coil to energize, a Q relay switch needs to be closed. To get the Q switch to close, the ball return switch needs to be closed.

With P relay coil energized, all the P switches close and power can get to the P relay coil, O relay coil and the Add Ball Count Unit solenoid.

We know there is a working circuit for the ball count unit since it will continually count up to ball 5 via score motor switch 4C. Because of this, there would be another main "gateway" switch that would send power to all the relay coils mentioned. This would be DB2 switch. If DB2 is always closed, then power could always get to those relay coils. Take a look at switch DB2 (red/brown wire and white/green wire) and see if it's adjusted properly. Look for any shorting wires at the switch stack.

Looking at the O relay coil, the O relay coil should energize when a switch on P relay is closed. You would need to check the P relay switch (green/black wire and orange/blue wire). Or you can just use a jumper wire from the orange/blue wire of the P switch to the green/black wire at the O relay coil.

Does the machine have the same issues when the you try to start a game without the ball in the ball shooter?

Can you see if switch DB2 is opening during the reset process? Usually, the schematic shows the game reset with ball in the ball shooter and the game on ball 1. But, the ball return switch shows as open on the schematic, so I'm not sure what point in the game the schematic is showing. I believe switch DB2 needs to be open after the game resets. If you see the switch opens during the reset process, there might be a short in the switch stack. You can check the switch with a multimeter while the switch is open to see if there is power at both the switch lugs or at the switch stack screws.

I'm wondering if the "control panel" is resetting during the game reset process. When you press the start/replay button, do you hear a loud "clunk" during the reset process?

Another way to approach the problem is to find out why the score motor keeps running. I don't have a full schematic for the machine, but you can look at the schematic to see the possible ways power can get to the score motor. Then you can start blocking the suspect switches to see if the machine will react differently...

Using the ohm setting on your multimeter is sometimes difficult, because you won't get accurate readings with the way EM pinball circuitry is designed. Most of the time you'll need to isolate the circuit by disconnecting wires from adjoining circuits. Try to use the AC volt setting to see if any voltage is going through the circuit.

You can fold back the control panel to get better access to the switches, and you can manually operate it to see if the switches are opening and closing properly. But, to get accurate on the switch adjustments, the control panel needs to be screwed down to its bracket. So, you would flip up the control panel, make adjustments, and then flip the control panel down and installed the wing nuts, and test the adjustments by running the machine.

Looking at the score motor, there should be approximately ten primary switches that send power to the score motor. Look at the schematic and follow over to where there are a group of switches. These switches will all have the same color of wire attached to their switch stack. You can make a list of the switches that are closed during the reset process. Most likely P switch will be closed, but are there any other switches that are closed that send power to the score motor? If you can't identify the switches, you can post a portion of the schematic that shows the score motor circuit...

An idea - with the ball in the ball shooter, reset the machine. When you see the game is at ball 1, quickly remove the ball from the ball shooter. After the ball is removed, see if the flippers work and if all the playfield features are active.

When you reset the machine and removed the ball from the ball shooter, do the flippers work and do the playfield features work and score?

The example you found at rec.games.pinball is for a traditional pinball machine where the ball is kicked over on a metal trough to the shooter lane, so your machine does not have a trough switch.

Yes, if the P switch is misadjusted, it would cause the ball count to advance repeatedly during the reset of the game. You would want to take a close look at the P switch with the two orange/blue wires. Switches P, DB2 and score motor switch 4C sends power to the add ball count unit solenoid. So, also closely look at switches DB2 and 4C...

I'm not sure of the technical name for the notch in playfield apron - ball shooter, trough, pocket, hole???

Looking at the portion of the schematic that has the Q, P, O relays and ball count unit, it seems that if power was always at the ball return switch, and the ball closed the ball return switch, power would always be sent to the Q relay coil, which would close a switch that would send power to the P relay coil. P switch would close and then score motor switch 4C would pulse power through the P switch and the power would go to the add ball count unit solenoid. Switch DB2 sends power to all these switches. But, all of this needs to happen in order for the right flipper switch to shoot the ball into the playfield.

I just watched a video of #playball and when the ball drains after ball one and closes the ball return switch, the ball count goes to ball 2 and everything stops until the ball is shot into the playfield again. So, when the ball closes the ball return switch and it's sitting in the ball shooter pocket, there has to be a switch that will open that prevents the add ball count unit solenoid from getting power. And one of those switches would either be DB2 or score motor switch 4C. Could there be a short in one of these switches?

I don't know why the pop bumpers started firing and the score reels started randomly turning. I would still keep trying to troubleshoot this ball count issue first...

The tilt switch you're talking about was probably a slam tilt switch and it wouldn't affect the ball count unit during game play...

For switches DB2 and 4C, I would start a game and remove the ball from the ball shooter. Then look to see if either switch DB2 or 4C are closed. Looking at the schematic again, it would make sense that DB2 is closed in order to supply power to the circuit in preparation for the ball to close the ball return switch. If switch 4C is open, then there wouldn't be a path for power to reach the add ball count unit. You can use a multimeter on the AC volt setting to determine if there is a short in the switch. Test the switch lugs and the switch stack screws for power...

When the ball lands in the ball shooter, the score motor briefly runs, which should close switch 4C in order for the add ball count unit to advance. Then 4C should open to prevent power from getting to the add ball count unit while the ball is sitting in the ball shooter.

From your videos, it looks like the operation is normal. Watching a game play video, the control panel (reset bank) does not change positions. In your videos I can't tell which switch is which, because it doesn't show the wire colors, but the DB2 switch should be in the closed position and the 4C switch would be open and then close/open when the score motor rotates, which would happen when the ball enters the ball shooter.

At this point there is evidence that there might be a short at switch 4C. Are any of the wires at the switch stack lugs touching? Use your multimeter to check the 4C switch stack. Check for power at the orange/blue wire and check if there is any power at the switch stack screws.

After checking for shorts at switch 4C, you can do another check by blocking the switch. Use a piece of tape or thin cardboard, or business card, etc and put it between the switch contacts of switch 4C. Then you would start a game to see how the machine would react. This would prove our theory of operation and it would determine if there were additional issues with the circuit and the switch...

To confirm, the schematic image posted by MarkG in post #4 is the same as your Playball schematic?

Did you confirm there are no shorts at score motor switch 4C?

If there are no shorts at 4C, the only other way power could get to the add ball count unit would be through an O relay switch, but this switch would send constant power to the add ball count unit solenoid.

I would do an experiment and block the 4C switch (orange/blue wire and white/green wire) and the O relay switch (green/black wire and blue/white wire) and see if this would prevent power from getting to the add ball count unit solenoid. Block these two switches, start a game and see how the machine reacts...

You can set your multimeter to the AC volt setting above 25 volts. Usually, you'll set the meter to 200 AC volts. Check the switch stack wire lugs at switch 4C and switch O. Test each wire lug on the switch stack for voltage. And check the switch stack screws for voltage.. It would be helpful to have a photo of the wires that are connected to the switch stack lugs to confirm they're the correct switches...

Try to block switch 4C and switch O. Then start a game with the ball in the ball shooter and see what happens. The add ball count unit should not advance if these two switches are blocked... During the reset process, can you see if O relay switch (green/black wire and blue/white wire) is open or closed?

To confirm, with switch 4C blocked, the add ball count unit does not advance, but the score motor keeps running... This would indicate that switch 4C is working properly.

There's still some switch staying closed that is allowing power to get to the add ball count unit solenoid during the reset process. We'll need to look at the O switch again. Check the O switch with the maroon/yellow wire and slate/white wire. Check the adjustment of the switch by manually pushing in the relay. Look at the switch stack lugs for shorting wires. This switch should go from normally closed (NC) to open. When the machine is reset, is the O relay energized?

If the O relay is not working, check the P relay switch with the orange/black wire and orange/blue wire. Also, check the ohms rating on the O relay coil. It should be 2.0 ohms or greater. You can use a 9-volt battery to test the coil. Put the leads of the battery to the lugs on the coil to see if the coil will energize.

You've probably done some of these test with @markg before, but we're checking to see if anything has changed...

Yes, some switches on the O relay will be normally closed (NC) and normally open (NO). From your video, the switches look correct...

Now test the O relay coil. You can check the ohms of the coil with a multimeter or you can use a 9-volt battery on the coil lugs. Or use a jumper wire from the transformer fuse block (switch side) and touch the other side of the jumper wire to the coil lug with the green/black wire. We need to confirm that the O relay coil is working properly...

I think the coil on the O relay is model number A-9735. The rated resistance on this coil is 14.9 ohms. If you're measuring 1.0 ohms at the coil, then the coil is malfunctioning, possibly shorted, and it needs to be replaced. If you don't have a replacement coil now, you can always swap out a coil from another part of the machine if you want to test the O relay. Or you can just order another coil and install it in a few days, and then test the machine again... Double check the model number of the O relay coil on your machine to make sure you order the correct coil...

There might be a type of sleeve in a coil, but they're non-serviceable. When you say "sleeve" that usually means a plunger sleeve that slides into a solenoid. Anyway, a sleeve would not solve the problem with a shorted coil or solenoid. In this case, the coil would need to be replaced. They're easy to replace - loosen a screw, remove two wires (soldering iron), remove the old coil, install the new coil, solder wires, tighten screw...

The Pinball Resource has the coil for US$10. Sometimes you can find used coils on Ebay...

http://www.pbresource.com/coilgtb.html

Congratulations! I'm glad to hear everything is working again... Enjoy the machine!

Before adding tension to the spring (which will make the target harder to push back during the game) check for sources of friction. Do the wipers and contact board need to be cleaned? Does the target rub against either side of the slot through the playfield? Etc...