Bought a Mustang that is the absolute most gorgeous machine on the inside I have ever seen... had a few issues but was playing. While sitting there had the 15A fuse begin to blow. Had a fried pop-bumper coil. ordered a new one and put it in and it didn't work... used some jumper wires and rather than trouble shoot the whole loom I jumped from a working bumper next to it to give it fire. Anyway it worked but the machine became scoreless. when I reversed the workaround it is still scoreless. Everything resets fine. upon reset the 10Pt bell dings once and the second you hit any switch/rollover/pop it dings and then you can hear the coil bind up. At no point will it register any scoring.
I have cleaned all the jones plugs twice and looked for broke wires. seems everything from the star rollovers on down are not functioning?

Can anyone shortcut me to a possible cause without me having to troubleshoot every 10 pt switch and relay? I've already gone through and checked for the obvious. solder blobs switch misalignment stuck burnt switches etc etc. I was reading about series relay malfunctions and checked that all look good?

any suggestion or schematic needs I have them.

As always thanx in advance

-=Fred=-

I pulled player 1 10 point score reel. i manually advanced it and nothing happened at all. like it was dead. it mechanically advanced the reel but that was it.

observations: game starts and goes all the way through the start regimen then you hear 1 ding and 10 point relay closes and stays closed i'm presuming freezing up the machine. none of 10 pt scoring items do anything . when i hit a 100 pt pop bumper you here the bell and relay pulls and won't let out causing it to loudly hum... no scores are registering on the reels.

seems there is a switch stuck on the board but i cant find it

i've even disconnected the chimes thinking that was what maybe binding,

ive been thru the 10,100 1000 relays and the scoring relays found one wire

off the 1000 pt reel but that didnt fix the problem...

help please

switch is fine

correct

Is the 10 point reel humming too?
no
If not, it could have gotten cooked and gone 'open' too when the pop bumper was stuck on and went open, since the 10 reel would have been stuck 'on' too.
Since it resets the coil is good and working
You'll need to test that 10 reel coil by activating it with jumper wires from another reel or other coil in the game, or check it with an ohmmeter while game is off. Does the 10 reel advance on game start if you first manually advance it to something other than zero?

all score reals will reset to 0
if i start the machine and manually advance player 1 to 30 pts and hit a 10
point target the machine will ding and not register the 10 pts and then freezes
it will not ding anymore

OBSERVATIONS:

pop bumper relays I have already gone thru sparking like fire works

so is the startup motor

what relay/coil freezes?

I know the 10 pt relay for certain it may be more

or do you mean the game won't score 10 points anymore?

the machine will not score at all

when it freezes, are you hearing any humming of a stuck relay, coil or solenoid?

yes but it seems like several

i get how explaining and repeating yourself must be soooo frustrating, but it's a process of elimination to work out what's wrong.

no issues i understand

funny you should mention that... that is where this major issue began.

while working the pop bumper all the jones plugs had white powder on

them so i pulled them and cleaned everyone of them. when i restarted

was when this whole major issue began

Lots of info above. I have experience with EM’s btw. Having fixed a few in my time but I still struggle with the schematics though.

Anyway I bought the machine to resell and like everyone here I fell in love with it. And decided to keep another one Lol. It was playing fine both 1 and 2 player. Though it obviously had a mechanical issue like needing the pop bumper fixed, new rubbers and a general going through. Honestly I never took inventory of what was and wasn’t working but it did reset and do all the scores and stuff it was in playable condition. Before I could order the parts from Steve I smelled that electrical smell you never want to smell and when I touched the machine the 15a fuse blew. So I ordered a 15a breaker to make a board checker without blowing 10 fuses and I called Steve and got the bumper rebuild kit along with 3 coils. I always order extra and also a ring kit.
So I put the bumper kit in along with the new coil and the bumper didn’t work. Didn’t fire at all. So I did a quick bypass with my jumper wires and it fired. In doing all this I was looking for obvious causes and every Jones plug was dusty. No severe corrosion mind you. Just cruddy. So I wire brushed them put a tiny bit of dielectric to help em slide and put it back together. That was when I noticed nothing was working and there was a noticeable humming.
So I did all my own diagnostics before coming here cause I know some old hands know things no one else does. Lol
In doing my research I took the play field out of the equation by disconnecting the Jones plugs but it still did the same thing. But by doing that I feel I took the play field out of the equation. I looked for the obvious like broke wires. I went through all the point relays i checked most if not all the ax bx u s relay switches on down the line. I visually checked the player unit as well as the main score motor. I manually manipulated every score real and since they all reset they should be good. I triple checked all the Jones plugs. I disconnected the chimes. The coin door still works on this beauty but I had it set to free play thru switch manipulation in the back head.

Guys I’m at a loss I’m gonna play around with it some more and going to try and get those videos up. My YouTube is fred lake I will not give up. Lol I’ll let y’all know what I find. I Tru ally believe it’s something minor I am missing.

Thanx again
-=Fred=-

its a snow i have time
1. the 10 reel does work when game is reset.
yes
2. 10 point relay should fire the 10 pt score reel, but it isn't even though it is locked on.
correct
3. Since 10 reel does not activate, 10 pt relay will remain locked because 10 score reel does not fire and open the 10 pt relay circuit thru it's EOS switch.
4. Only locks *after* you activate a 10 point switch so it apparently is not a stuck playfield score switch.

Are all the switches in the 10 pt relay clean and adjusted and ones that should close when it's activated are closing? No broken off/burnt switch blades/points in it? If the switch in that relay for the 10 point reel is not closing, what is happening is what would happen. Or perhaps a jones plug socket/pin is still dirty/not making contact or a wire there came loose while you were cleaning them.
jones are good

can you tell me what happens if you try to manually pull on the 10 point relay activator plate ( the piece that moves, holding leaf switch ends that does the make and break of the contacts) away from the coil whilst locked in place/energised, like pulling against it being energised to see if the 10 point score reel advances?

I can pull it in and out and it will stay there so does 100 (they both pull in) score reels do not advance

another option is to remove the playfield jones plug/s and find the common and 10 point scoring switch wires and check for continuity between them, which there shouldn't be any.
although, from what frenchmarky has stated, it's not a stuck 10 point playfield switch? if i'm reading the post correctly.

I just went thru every switch I saw nothing major tightened every stack and also went thru drop target and pop bumper relays

back to square 1... I soldered back on the original pop bumper wires to the rebuilt pop bumper then turned it on and started it game over relay was humming so I readjusted it them the last ball relay started to hum so i readjusted it...

rang up plyer 1 and 2 shot the ball chimes rang a few times and stopped all 3 pop bumpers worked fine...

STILL NO SCORING GRRRRR

Did you try the second player test?
YES

LOOKS LIKE I HAVE MY SCORING SWITCH IN THE MAIN MOTOR IS A LIL CRISPY I'M REDOING THOSE SWITCHES NOW AND LET YOU KNOW THE RESULTS

THAT IS THE FIRE WORKS SWITCHES IN THE VIDEO

LAST RESORT ILL TRY THE CARDBOARD
When you trace the circuit path from the relay to the reel. See if there are any contacts / switches in that path. Then put a small piece of cardboard like a cereal box or heavy business card in between the contacts of every switch. See if the locking relay stops. If so, then pull the cardboard one at a time and test each time.

There are many small little things that can cause a problem like this. Hope the cardboard test helps.

Here’s the schematic

84C0B142-8109-4632-B48E-17518280F237 (resized).jpeg

i checked the hold relay all good

should i be checking the score reel?

i also redid the start motor score switches and no luck

Per your request

61DB4C61-6BBA-4D67-84D4-706FE2865F95 (resized).jpeg

BC58BFF2-51BD-4ADA-9289-556437B932B9 (resized).jpeg

C078AA32-F296-4AB8-BA23-D20DB6FCC3BC (resized).jpeg

E0659E36-95C6-45FD-90DE-45F1097B4D99 (resized).jpeg

Having been told that working coin doors can be a huge headache. Can anyone see if my coin door could be a non scoring issue???

FF22E5E3-5617-45DF-A27B-258A4CE19A82 (resized).jpeg

QUICK UPDATE: in checking all my relays and revamping my player unit switches i've brought myself to a start motor non stop condition how frustrating lol Have to walk away and regroup lol
BUT it looks like after an AX BX CX adjustment i may be scoring again if I can get it through a complete reset.
I'll be back!

Fred

Update: Machine does complete startup. Problem was P5a & P5b in the player unit. Reels reset lites on etc etc but still no scoring... play field is dead except for kicker hole. In fighting the motor issue I did something and the scoring returned but went away again.

I saw this super informative video on youtube that dealt with a different machine with the exact same problem which he showed in detail the fix.

BUT

his fix isnt fixing mine... i went thru all the relays again to no avail...

He pinpoints the Q relay as the board power relay...

Anyone / someone please look over this and give me any ideas as to what may be happening please.

Thanx

Fred

machine goes through the startup and acts and looks like everything is good ... player 1 all reals reset player 2 all good ...no locked coils no humming all good... just nothing at all works... no scoring no chimes no bumpers... only thing is the pop holes...

if you watch that video i posted it is doing exactly what that video shows ... his fix though doesn't fix my machine which is basically a bad Q relay switch

Howard you have email

thanx

When I jumper AX red/wh to Q red/wh machine works perfect

So I ohmed red/bl ax to red white ax it shows and is closed. Ohmed 0.0

I ohmed Q ohms showed 0.0

When I ohmed ax red/Wh to Q rd/wh it ohmed good. Like 0.4

So I removed the jumper and tried the machine and it went back to problem state

I was expecting a bad switch or wire

Help please

I’m in the process of testing the tilt junctions right now

Ax to t. And t to Q

I’ll let you know in a few

Ok the wires on the Tilt switch is red black not red yellow per schematic

When I jump ax red wh to t red black nothing works

When I jump t red and back to Q red and white machine is back to normal and works

Apparently the problem lays between t and q

should I just run a new wire between T and Q?

I really don't want to split the loom and search for a broke wire?

Sorry,

Yes I mean the switches on the relays

I jumpered switch with red/blk wire on relay H to relay O switch with red/blk and there was no change

I jumpered red/blk relay O to relay AX red/wh no change

I jumpered red/wh relay AX to red/wh Q and the machine worked perfect

Then I saw relay T between AX and Q relays

So I jumpered red/wh relay AX to relay T which schematic denotes as red and yellow is actually red/blk on the machine and no change, not working

I jumpered relay T red/blk to relay Q red/wh and the machine worked perfect again.

Should I just run a new wire between relay T switch red/black and relay Q switch red/white ?

I really don't want to split the loom and search for a broke wire?

Thanx in advance

if you notice between AX and Q there are the three tilt switches ... these go to a relay T (tilt relay) that is where I jumpered.

Relay T is a single switch relay

the switch is orange red white and the other side on the schematic is red and yellow. Mine is red/black

I jumpered switch with red/blk wire on relay AX to relay T switch with red/blk and there was no change

I jumpered switch with red/blk wire on relay T to relay Q switch with red/blk and machine ran perfect.

Hope this helps... sorry for my struggle with you!

thank you for you and everyone's help! Machine is once again operational as it should.

Thanx again for all the support!

-=Fred=-