(Topic ID: 163562)

Gottlieb Mayfair 1 point relay


By CookyJar

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by CookyJar
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#1 3 years ago

To preface, picked up a Gottlieb Mayfair back in Sept. '15. Had an issue with the control bank resetting (plus other issues). After not getting anywhere with a fix, decided that I was going to shop out anyway and during the course of cleaning would fix the issue. Fast forward about 8 months, the game is all cleanup and looking nice. The control bank reset issue seems to have solved it self during the cleaning/shopping. However, I'm now having some other play issues.

The main issue now is that the 1 point relay in the head once actuated becomes locked on. When touching any 1 point switch on the playfield the relay locks on, when touching a 5 point switch no scoring happens. 10 point and 100 point relays seem to be working and registering ok. On quick inspection, none of the playfield switches seem to be closed. Any ideas where to look next?

-Steve

#2 3 years ago

You picked up a game back in Sept '16?

Now we know where the DeLorean went...

#3 3 years ago

Hi Cooky. dont have that pin, but... I would start with the score reel switches. then the player control relays, I think they are AA,BB, etc.
then the player unit. assuming it has them...

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

You picked up a game back in Sept '16?
Now we know where the DeLorean went...

Opps, fixed the date. Though I wouldn't mind having a DeLorean.

Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

Hi Cooky. dont have that pin, but... I would start with the score reel switches. then the player control relays, I think they are AA,BB, etc.
then the player unit. assuming it has them...

I'm thinking it's not the score reels because when I have a two player game going it still has the locked on relay. Will check the player control relays and the player unit. Does anyone know which is the player unit on a Mayfair? Most of the labels have fallen off my stepper units etc. making it harder to tell what is what.

#5 3 years ago

Put slips of paper between any switches that have a value of 1 point. One by one remove them and see which one makes the relay lock on. Adjust that switch accordingly.

#6 3 years ago

Hi
CookyJar wrote in post-1 "main issue is 1-point relay ONCE ACTIVATED becomes locked on".
To me this means: A Score-Reel problem.

CookyJar: Question: When You start a game - Do the 1-Point-Score-Drums reset ?
When You get the ball ready to play and You activate a "target worth 1 point" and the 1-point-RELAY pulls-in (and faulty keeps-on pulling): Does the Coil on Score-Drum PULL-IN the plunger ?

Theory: Ball hits a target --- 1-point-RELAY pulls-in - close its "Self-Hold-Switch to keep pulling forever" - another switch on the moved 1-point-RELAY closes and feed current to 1-point-SCORE-DRUM. Score-Drum pulls-in - its plunger is moved - at "end of travel" the moved plunger opens an "End-Of-Stroke" Switch. THIS EOS-Switch is in the "Self-Hold-Circuitry of 1-point-RELAY" - therefore 1-point-RELAY looses power - let go and by doing this opens both "Switches mounted on 1-point-RELAY" --- "Score-Drum let go and 1-point-RELAY can not hold-on with the Self-Hold-Circuitry".

So we need the information "Does the Coil on Score-Drum PULL-IN the plunger ?" Greetings Rolf

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from CookyJar:

Does anyone know which is the player unit on a Mayfair?

it shud be in the middle? of back box.
it has a brown disk on the outside,"you can see it", and some white cams behind it

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

So we need the information "Does the Coil on Score-Drum PULL-IN the plunger ?"

I agree. Rolf is heading in the right direction. Here is an embellishment:
Start a 2-player game.
Don't let the ball roll on the playfield, but manually actuate both a 10 and a 100 for player 1, ball 1. (Manually click the relay is one easy way.) Do NOT score any 1s!
Drop the ball in the outhole so that the game advances to player 2, ball 1.
Hit a 1-point switch and continue with the analysis suggested by Rolf.
Now you know the difference in behavior between the player 1 1-point reel and player 2's 1-point reel. If the problem is an end-of-stroke switch on a score reel, you'll probably see a difference.
If you can't complete the diagnosis, bring the game! Experts will be available.
.................David Marston

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from dmarston:

I agree. Rolf is heading in the right direction. Here is an embellishment:
Start a 2-player game.
Don't let the ball roll on the playfield, but manually actuate both a 10 and a 100 for player 1, ball 1. (Manually click the relay is one easy way.) Do NOT score any 1s!
Drop the ball in the outhole so that the game advances to player 2, ball 1.
Hit a 1-point switch and continue with the analysis suggested by Rolf.
Now you know the difference in behavior between the player 1 1-point reel and player 2's 1-point reel. If the problem is an end-of-stroke switch on a score reel, you'll probably see a difference.
If you can't complete the diagnosis, bring the game! Experts will be available.
.................David Marston

When I start a 1 player game both reels reset to 0. When I start a 2 player game, player 1 score jumps to 50 points, actuating 10 points works fine, as does 100 points (by manually clicking the relay as well). After dropping the ball in the out hole it scores 20-30 points on player 1 score, then 30 or 20 points (always adding up to a total of 50 points) on player 2 score before doing anything. It's done this a few times when starting a 2 player game. After hitting a 1 point switch during player 2 game, it does the same thing and the 1 point relay locks up (along with the coil for the 0-9 stepper) then other times when I drop the ball in the outhole going from player 1 to player 2 the one point relay locks on, as does the coil for the 0-9 stepper unit.

Then following Rolf's analysis, when a game is started the 1 point score reels to reset to the 0 position. Then when scoring 1 point the relay locks on, as does the 0-9 unit, but the coil on the 1 point score drum does not pull. Following Rolf's theory, I start a game then hit a 1 point relay which locks on, but the 1 point score drum coil does not pull in. So I manually actuate the 1 point score drum and the 1 point relay and 0-1 stepper release the hold on. My guess is that the next step is to see why the 1 point score drum is not being energized to score and hit the end of stroke switch to release the 1 point relay and 0-9 stepper. Where do I begin to look?

-Steve

#10 3 years ago

So the 1-point relay is trying to actuate either the player 1 or player 2 1-point reel and not causing that coil to pull in? Now you need to identify the wire color of the wire from the 1-point relay that goes to those coils. Somewhere along that path, it goes through a stepper-unit disc or switch to choose between player 1 and player 2, but if both players behave the same, then the breakage is in the part that they have in common. I say "breakage" because the power is not getting to a place that it should be. Try to follow that wire along its whole route, although the two endpoints would be the main suspects. I wouldn't expect any connectors along the way; everything should be in the back box.

As a separate issue, you seem to have a 50 point switch stuck closed somewhere. Check all the 50 point switches.
.................David Marston

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from dmarston:

So the 1-point relay is trying to actuate either the player 1 or player 2 1-point reel and not causing that coil to pull in? Now you need to identify the wire color of the wire from the 1-point relay that goes to those coils. Somewhere along that path, it goes through a stepper-unit disc or switch to choose between player 1 and player 2, but if both players behave the same, then the breakage is in the part that they have in common. I say "breakage" because the power is not getting to a place that it should be. Try to follow that wire along its whole route, although the two endpoints would be the main suspects. I wouldn't expect any connectors along the way; everything should be in the back box.
As a separate issue, you seem to have a 50 point switch stuck closed somewhere. Check all the 50 point switches.
.................David Marston

Thanks David! Heading for bed now, will try tomorrow when I get home from work. Hopefully will have some time to work on it, as we're behind on packing for the trip.

#12 3 years ago

Ugh... didn't end up having anytime to work on the machine. The dumpster was finally picked up from in front my house today, however they seemed to have spilled out a mess on my front yard which I spent most of the evening cleaning up. Barely enough time to pack up the vacation stuff and breakdown and load up the machine.

David, you mentioned the experts will be available. Anyone in particular that I should look for when I arrive?

-Steve

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from CookyJar:

David, you mentioned the experts will be available. Anyone in particular that I should look for when I arrive?

Try Tony D., Dave Metrando, or me. Tony has a team and can pick an available EM expert from that team. If you have the schematic, be sure to bring it.
.................David Marston
(who is wearing his Team-EM shirt today)

#14 3 years ago

Hi,
I also picked up a Mayfair last week, there will be one at Pintastic. I'm looking to take notes on stencils because some jack wagon painted my cabinet tan. My game plays but doesn't score 1's 10's or 100's , love the dual shooter between flippers. You historians should know this is the last pin to have Roy Parkers artwork. It's also an Ed Krinsky design with metal jewel posts. There are only a handful of pins in this era that have this combination .

DQ74

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from dmarston:

Try Tony D., Dave Metrando, or me. Tony has a team and can pick an available EM expert from that team. If you have the schematic, be sure to bring it.
.................David Marston
(who is wearing his Team-EM shirt today)

Will do, thanks David. We're about 1 1/2 hrs. out on our way up

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