Barnstable, MA
How and when does the Gottlieb Card Whiz match relay 'F" energize? I put a volt meter on it as the last ball sank, and didn't see a spike in voltage. Only a steady 20 volts coming from "N" relay on the BL-BLK.
(Topic ID: 165399)
The 00-90 relay (F) is a step-switch that is advanced throughout a game by a switch on the pop bumper relay or by a parallel switch on the 10 point score relay. The net effect of this is that it will have been set to a random number for use as the match at the end of the game.
Note that the F relay does not fire at the end of the game to award the match, that is done by a switch on the last ball (BX) relay, the outhole relay (0), and a couple of switches on the score motor.
The circuit is somewhat complicated because it needs to be able to award a match for the second player when two are playing. The second player match is enabled by a switch on the 2nd player relay (CX) and an additional score motor switch.
To really understand how the match circuit works for your game, you should have a schematic.
- TimMe
Quoted from Playdium:So if you watched the "F" during a game, you would see the gear assembly advance as Pop Bumpers were hit?
Depends on the game but that's the general idea. Those mini steppers are almost always gummed up and stuck in 1 spot if the game has sat.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gtb-as-match-stepper-rebuild-step-by-step
Quoted from Playdium:So if you watched the "F" during a game, you would see the gear assembly advance as Pop Bumpers were hit?
Correct and anything via the "N" relay( aka 10 point score relay ) would move it.
Quoted from Wickerman2:Depends on the game but that's the general idea. Those mini steppers are almost always gummed up and stuck in 1 spot if the game has sat.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gtb-as-match-stepper-rebuild-step-by-step
Those mini steppers are a real joy to get adjusted properly, especially if they have two switches on them.
Great info found on Pinrepair regarding this particular relay and game.
"Gottlieb's AS Relay (the Miniature Stepper).
Starting around 1966, Gottlieb stopped using a full sized 0-9 match stepper unit and converted to a much smaller (and cheaper) AS relay stepper. This is a miniaturized stepper that is much more delicate, and made with many nylon parts. The biggest problem with this relay stepper isn't the mechanism itself so much, as it is the people that work on it. Because the unit is small and delicate, often it gets mis-handled, mis-adjusted, and abused by over-zealous EM repair people.
Also in a lot of replay games, the AS relay stepper may be missing from the backbox. This happens because the AS relay is easily removed with two screws and two "Jones" plugs. This was done to the match unit so it could be easily removed for territories that did not allow players to win free games. So if you come across a Gottlieb EM with two empty female Jones plugs in the backbox, the game is probably missing the AS relay used for score matching. But the AS relay was also used for some bigger tasks in 1970s games. For example in the 1976 Gottlieb Royal Flush and Card Whiz, this relay was paramount to counting the drop target bonus. If the AS relay was not advancing in these games, the entire game would not work (score motor would continue to run while the game unsuccessfully tries to advance the under-playfield mounted AS relay)."
Now to call Steve for parts...
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