(Topic ID: 233832)

Gottlieb Kewpie Doll Score Motor Runs Constantly

By Syco54645

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by currieddog
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#1 2 years ago

So I fired up my Gottlieb Kewpie Doll and the score motor just keeps running. The relays in the cab get reset (and all wires appear intact), all score reels reset to 0 and the credit count decrements. Anyone know where I should start? I have the schematic but EM schematics end up confusing the hell out of me...

#2 2 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

the score motor just keeps running.

I don't have the schematic, but does it have a bank? And if so, is that resetting? Something in the reset process isn't doing so, so you need to track that down. Does it have a hold relay, and if so, is that engaging?

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

I don't have the schematic, but does it have a bank? And if so, is that resetting? Something in the reset process isn't doing so, so you need to track that down. Does it have a hold relay, and if so, is that engaging?

There is a hold relay. That engages. If I disengage that by hand then it shuts the game off. There is a bank as well and that is resetting. What is the best way to track down the issue here? Not a fan of poking my fingers into the game when it is running because of the voltages.

#4 2 years ago

Does the ball(s) release? If so, does it not do anything else to be ready to play, other than stop the motor?

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Does the ball(s) release? If so, does it not do anything else to be ready to play, other than stop the motor?

Balls release but nothing else works. If I go in the backbox and manually trigger the score relays then I can score points but the reels reset back to 0 again. Hitting a sling doesnt register anything.
Oh and to be clear the motor doesn't stop. Normally it would reset the game, release the balls and then be ready to play.

#6 2 years ago

Check these switches, esp. the two make/breaks.

Capture (resized).PNG

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Check these switches, esp. the two make/breaks.
[quoted image]

sorry really new with em. what specifically should i be looking for? best i can tell those are all relays in the bank on the bottom of the cab. i have cleaned the closed switches with a crisp bill. all seem fine now.

figured maybe a video may help as well. https://photos.app.goo.gl/YRxogFy6ZAwCxevg9

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

what specifically should i be looking for?

Track down each relay by its letter and the schematic, and esp. on the M/B sw. make sure they're clean and making solid contact when they're energized and not making contact when not.

Good reading, from Clay's famous guide: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#clean
The whole thing is worth a look when you have time.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Track down each relay by its letter and the schematic, and esp. on the M/B sw. make sure they're clean and making solid contact when they're energized and not making contact when not.
Good reading, from Clay's famous guide: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#clean
The whole thing is worth a look when you have time.

Oh yeah I have read this before. I checked that each switch on those relays are in adjustment, i see no missing wires or solder lugs that are touching. I cleaned all contacts on those relays with a flexstone. It did not appear to make any difference. On the SCM there is a red and red-white wire running to the motor with 1c, d, w, o, g and f on it. Could those also be culprits?

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:Oh yeah I have read this before. I checked that each switch on those relays are in adjustment, i see no missing wires or solder lugs that are touching. I cleaned all contacts on those relays with a flexstone. It did not appear to make any difference. On the SCM there is a red and red-white wire running to the motor with 1c, d, w, o, g and f on it. Could those also be culprits?

Any of these switches closed will cause the score motor to run. They should all open at the end of a successful reset cycle. If they are stuck shut, you will get this constant motor running symptom.

Check score motor 1c first. It should open each time the cam follower drops into the cutout of the top plate of the score motor. Your schematic will have a diagram to help you locate score motor switch positions.

After that, inspect the rest of the switches you found on that circuit of the schematic. look for relays marked with the letters, d, w, o, g, f. Find the switch in those relays with the red and red-white wire connected to them and make sure they are opening and closing properly when the relay operates. You should probably do this with power off and machine unplugged.

#11 2 years ago

Is this the first time you have turned on this machine?

Have you seen it running properly before this issue now?

When was the last time it was running properly?

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

They should all open at the end of a successful reset cycle.

Except for D, which is NC.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Any of these switches closed will cause the score motor to run. They should all open at the end of a successful reset cycle. If they are stuck shut, you will get this constant motor running symptom.
Check score motor 1c first. It should open each time the cam follower drops into the cutout of the top plate of the score motor. Your schematic will have a diagram to help you locate score motor switch positions.
After that, inspect the rest of the switches you found on that circuit of the schematic. look for relays marked with the letters, d, w, o, g, f. Find the switch in those relays with the red and red-white wire connected to them and make sure they are opening and closing properly when the relay operates. You should probably do this with power off and machine unplugged.

Thanks! This will help me narrow down what to look for.

Quoted from Pafasa:

Is this the first time you have turned on this machine?
Have you seen it running properly before this issue now?
When was the last time it was running properly?

It is not the first time I have turned it on. This game was purchased by my father in the 80s (I grew up playing it) then moved into storage in a basement. 3/4 of the basement was above grade and it was not humid. It sat for nearly 15 years unused. The back door was off the entire time. I was asked if I wanted it and tested the game and amazingly it played fine then I got it home and still, it played fine. I replaced the old cracked rubbers and put a few games on it then started having this issue. I ruled out the new rubber closing a switch on the pf as I removed all of the rubbers in contact with switches. It last worked correctly 3 years ago. I turned off the game when it started acting up and did not revisit till now.

#14 2 years ago

Reply sent in private message

#15 2 years ago

Which of these 7 switches is causing the motor to run?

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#16 2 years ago

switch D

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Except for D, which is NC.

Quoted from HowardR:

Which of these 7 switches is causing the motor to run?
[quoted image]

Thanks for the correction. My post was misleading in regards to switch "D".

If the Switch "D" is normally closed, then it will make the motor run. If the motor runs, switch "1C" will close and keep the motor running. I don't have the rest of the schematic, so when does "D" open?

#18 2 years ago

D is the reset relay. Syco, I think you may be relying too much on visual; I've had times when the contacts 'looked' like they were making good contact, but a poke with an insulated tool showed that they actually weren't. Also, make sure the switch stack screws are tight, before cleaning/adjusting contacts.

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#19 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Syco, I think you may be relying too much on visual

Well in addition to visual i am using a meter on cont. Will try to get back to this tonight. it is hard to close the switches when the machine is on because of where the relay is situated. i can flip it up though and will most likely do that. worst that will happen is the reset will fire and not hit the relays.

All screws are tight, that was the first thing I did to those stacks.

Spent last night fixing my mvs4 arcade board and the night before recapping my monitor. A lot of stuff broke all at once. Projects are dwindling now to 1 broken mv2 board, switch matrix issues on sbm and kewpie doll. will try to get kewpie flipping tonight.

#20 2 years ago

Holy Crap my brain just clicked. I manually fired D after starting and the motor stops and the game functions. Now to hunt down why D is messed up and the coil isnt firing on it...

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Check the make/break on T.

T is the tilt. They tested out fine with my meter and prodding. Tripping the relay causes the machine to tilt as well so that appears to be working correctly at least. I see that T is what causes the D coil to fire so will see if I can find something there. Perhaps I have a bad coil on D as well so will check that.

#23 2 years ago

Here's another circuit that can power the Reset (D) relay

Pinball (resized).png
#24 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Here's another circuit that can power the Reset (D) relay
[quoted image]

Yeah I think the issue is the score reels. The unit unit was very sluggish so I took it apart and cleaned then reassembled. It works great now however the 100 unit is now acting like the unit unit was. May as well redo the 10 while I am back there. I will first manually 0 all of the reels and see that the switches register correctly.

#25 2 years ago

I come with good news. The game is officially fixed, at least as much as it ever was in all the years of ownership. The issue was a dirty contact on the tens unit that was not reporting closed when it was.

#26 2 years ago

Congrats! Do you feel like you gained a little ground understanding EM machines?

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Congrats! Do you feel like you gained a little ground understanding EM machines?

Very much so. My brain just clicked on wednesday and it all made sense. I knew where the problem was down to 3 switches just was working on fixing my neo geo boards then. Also it is kinda a pain to get behind the game to get at the score reels.

Thanks everyone for your help! I would have never been able to do this without everyone chipping in. Now comes the time to start cleaning it up.

#28 2 years ago

Excellent! Please check as "resolved."

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