Jungle Queen
Gottlieb, 1977My game is keeping me challenged. The bonus points won't subtract after ball is sunk.
When the game is inititized the bonus points are reset to zero.
After the ball is sunk into the outhole the bonus points never return to zero. I can manuall advance the subtract solenoid on the bonus stepper til the bonus is zero. Then the ball ejects and continues on.
With the ball in the outhole and manually pressing the K relay(bonus score relay) the bonus light will return to zero but this does not Add the individual 1000 bonus points.
For what ever reason when the ball goes in the outhole the bonus points are not countdown and game hangs there.
Any one have a moment to comment
The bonus relay should be energized when ball drains by, a correctly adjusted ball return switch, a correctly adjusted 0 position bonus unit switch, a correctly adjusted motor switch 1C, a correctly adjusted motor switch 2B, a correctly adjusted anti cheat switch.
Frb,
I am certain my ball return switch is correctly adjusted, ditto for motor switch 1C and 2B.
I can manually score non bonus point targets, sink the ball and the ball gets ejected, proving my ball return switch is fine.
When I manually score a bonus point target and immediately sink the ball. Nothing.
I am also assuming the anti cheat is fine .
Still no bonus working. Any other suggestions.
Is there a kind soal out there who has Jungle Queen manual. I received the Jungle Princess manual.
What I am looking for is found on page two of the JUNGLE QUEEN Manual called operating instruction.
It has a section about when the ball goes into the outhole and describes what relays and score motor switches fires before the ball. Is ejected.
This should help me identify what I am missing to troubleshoot my present problem before I pull the remainder of my hair out.
If you really want to make my day and please share that page and I will be a happy camper.
Hi legtod2
it would be good when You show such an snippet of schematics of Your pin.
Lets look at Surf Champ --- we want to start a new game so the Ball is in the Outhole and "encircled orange" switch is closed , closed, closed. We start a new game - the AX-Relay pulls-in and makes the reset-stuff happen. To hinder the O-Outhole-Relay to pull-in (too early) there is "encircled green" switch. During reset the "encircled brown" switch makes the Bonus-Unit step down.
During play - You loose a ball --- the "encircled red" Make-and-Brake-Switch on Bonus-Unit must make the K-Relay pull-in. The K-Relay with its closed "encircled blue" switch makes the Bonus-Unit step down --- and then the Make-and-Brake-Switch moves so the O-Outhole-Relay pulls-in etc.
Do You have a K- (?) Bonus-SCORE-Relay ? Press the armature of this relay --- success ? Greetings Rolf
Rolf,
I do have a K bonus relay. If I manually trigger the K relay the bonus count down switch does activate. I notice when that happens the score does not increment by 1000 pts for each increment (none regardless to how many times I press K relay). Each time I press K the countdown stepps the subtract bonus until zero or home position.
Tonight I will double check the AX switch stack and the K switch stack.
This is from the target alpha 4 player game manual. It is what I am looking except not for Jungle Queen.
8 and 9 differs on Jungle Queen. There is no DX or E switch on JQ machine. What is the DX and E switch for Target Alpha?
The other possibility is the DX was a typo for AX but I dont know for sure.
1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. 'S' relay starts the motor running.
4. 'AX' relay actuates and the 'coin' unit subtracts through switches on 'AX' and 'S' relays and switches on motor 4C and motor 1A. 'Q' relays de-energizes when 'AX' relay operates.
5. When 'AX' relay actuates, the reset relays 'Z1' and 'Z2' are energized in sequence by rivets on the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay.
5a. Motor 1A steps the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay and 'P5B', to the 20th position energizing 'Z1'.
5b. When 'Z1' is energized the 1st and 2nd player score units reset to zero through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A and 'Z1'. When all score units of the 1st and 2nd player are at zero the player unit steps to the 21st position through a normally closed switch on 'Z2' and normally closed switches on all score units of the 1st two players, actuating 'Z2' relay. The 3rd and 4th player score units now reset through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A, and 'Z2'. The player unit continues to its zero position through the closed switches on 'Z1', 'Z2', 'P5B' and motor 1A until 'P5B' opens.
6. When 'P5A' on the player unit closes, 'AX' and 'BX' relays reset through motor 4C and switches on 'DX', and 'R' relays. The reset cycle is now complete.
7. Inserting additional coins or pushing the replay button will step the 'coin' unit through switches on 'DX' and 'S' relays and a switch on motor 4C. The replay button circuit opens when 'coin' unit is on 4th position.
8. Place the ball in the out hole. The ball return switch closes and completes the circuit to 'O' relay through the normally closed switches of 'DX', 15th position 'Bonus' unit, motor 1C, motor 2B, 'Q', 'AX', and 'S' relays. 'O' relay locks-in. Through switches on motor 4C, 'BX', and 'O' the ball return coil actuates kicking the ball onto the runway.
9. The remaining balls that enter the outhole are kicked across the trough switch which pulls in 'P' relay. 'P' relay runs the motor. Switches on 'E', 'DX', motor 2C, 'P', 'BX', and motor 1A advances the 'Player' unit the required number of steps determined by the 'Player' unit switches and the 'Coin' unit.
10. The 3-5 ball adjustment changes the number of balls played per game. The third or fifth ball leaving the playfield will trip the 'last ball' relay 'BX' through switches on 'E', 'DX', rivets on the player unit disc, and 'O' relay.
If you look at Rolf snippet of schematic it shows the path to energize K. I listed above the switches in this path. This is how K is energized. The scoring circuit will be completed by a switch on K when it is energized.
If you look at schematic the 0 position bonus switch also needs to be adjusted correctly to score the points. It also needs to be correct to energize K. I would look closely in that area.
The target alpha states ...
8. Place the ball in the out hole. The ball return switch closes and completes the circuit to 'O' relay through the normally closed switches of 'DX', 15th position 'Bonus' unit, motor 1C, motor 2B, 'Q', 'AX', and 'S' relays. 'O' relay locks-in. Through switches on motor 4C, 'BX', and 'O' the ball return coil actuates kicking the ball onto the runway.
I do not see the DX or firstball reference from rolf schematic. I am trying to wrap my head arround what schematic shows to what manual states.
O is not energized until bonus unit is at 0. On schematic snippet if bonus switch is not at 0, there is no circuit to energize O. The zero bonus makes/breaks circuit path between K and O. The ball return switch must be closed for either to happen. The bonus has to count down before O is energized because only 5 units can be subtracted per 1/3 motor revolution. If you have more than 5 bonus it takes at least 2 revolutions of motor. O uses this motor to serve ball and if it locks in on first revolution then ball will be served after 5 bonus no matter how many you actually had.
Frb,
I will double check the switch stack for AX, bonus count stepper switch stack ,ball return switch, and K switch stack.
The ball return switch is most likely ok due to my score testing done without bonus points.
I know when I manualy press the K relay the bonus counts down, but it does not add the 1000 bonus points to the score.
This leaves me to suspect the bonus count switch and the AX switch stack.
Tonight I will clean and adjust the AX switch stack and test.
If it still does not work ...Using alligator jumper I could try jumper the bonus point switch contacts with the outhole switch engaged.
That all being said, I am curious to why the 1000 bonus points are not accumulating.
Hi legtod2
frb and me --- we would like to see parts of the schematics of Jungle Queen. Then it would be "looking up" instead of "guessing".
The K-Relay is one of the many relays that have an "Self-Hold-Circuitry" - these relays have an Switch (mounted on the relay) to close to establish Self-Hold-Current --- see "encircled burgundy-red".
When You press the armature of the K-Relay in Your pin: You manually close this switch --- the Self-Hold-Circuitry must be established - the relay must stay pulling for a while.
So You have two problems: AAA No Initial-Curret flowing to make the K-Relay pull-in - BBB Self-Hold-Circuitry NOT functioning. Maybe, maybe the wire on the coil has broken-off so Your K-Relay is dead ?
On the bottom of the first JPG I show the situation in Surf Champ --- the K-Relay is involved to make the L-1000-Point-Relay actuate. Show snippets of the schematics of Jungle Queen and we can talk about using Jumper-Wires to detect the faults.
The Target Alpha is NOT good to look-up problems on "counting down Bonus at end of a ball in Jungle Queen" --- The "Bonus feature in Target Alpha is handled completely different".
Jungle Queen and most pins have the Bonus-Unit kind a like an Replay-Counter --- single stepping up --- single (but steady, quite fast) stepping down.
See the second JPG - the Target Alpha has NO Bonus-Ladder. At end of a ball an 15 or 16 step unit is made stepping through all steps --- on every halt / step: The pin looks up "has this target dropped - so I give some Points". Greetings Rolf
Quoted from legtod2:That all being said, I am curious to why the 1000 bonus points are not accumulating.
As I stated, the 1,000 points bonus scoring curcuit goes thru the zero bonus switch at the stepper.
It should come as no surprise the problem was the zero bonus count switch. Even with it looking perfectly adjusted and clean it would intermitantly work. For example it start to work then stop.
If the ball was in the outhole and there was bonus points still to count down but it would become stuck. I could flip the flippers rapidly. The vibration seem to cause it to work again.
When I openned the play field and held the outhole ball switch and move the zero pos switch the count down bonus started to work. Adjusting the switch is very picky.
So now when the ball goes into the outhole the bonus counts down and the 1000 bonus points gets added.
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