(Topic ID: 326276)

Gottlieb Jumping Jack pop bumpers machine gunning

By davidr415

8 days ago


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  • 18 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by davidr415
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#1 8 days ago

Fairly frequently the ball gets hung up rapidly bouncing from the pop bumper to either the nearby side or lower rubber. Rapidly back and forth like a machine gun. I have to tilt out of it to stop it. I’ve tried playfield angles from 3 1/2 to 6 1/2 deg and it still happens? New rubbers. Pop bumpers have been converted to DC operated solenoids.

#2 8 days ago

DC pops are more powerful. The regular AC pops can do that for a while, more so when the game is high tapped. I see similar behavior in our Williams Skylab, if you get the ball in the right spot. Those are DC coils as well. You could try larger rings to get less bounce, but that changes your chances of saving the ball from draining as well.

Just my two cents based on the behaviors I’ve seen on two games that I’ve rehabbed.

Good luck,
Dave

#3 7 days ago

Thanks for the idea. I may also try putting a pin ( finishing mail) just behind the rubber to limit the bounce and change the angle of reflection slightly. Any thoughts on this approach.

#4 7 days ago
Quoted from davidr415:

Thanks for the idea. I may also try putting a pin ( finishing mail) just behind the rubber to limit the bounce and change the angle of reflection slightly. Any thoughts on this approach.

Nooooooooooooooooo!

#5 7 days ago

Mikala Better alternative?.

#6 7 days ago

I'm interested, too. My Williams Grand Prix machine guns between both pop bumpers and the game sides. After enough strong nudging it may stop, or at times I have to shut the game down.

#7 7 days ago

Seems to affect all manufacturers. It happens on my Williams Magic Town and Bally Flip Flop. Any game with a stretched ring near a pop bumper. There's just not enough distance between the two to get it to change direction. I haven't tried this but you might try a slightly over-sized ring, The softer rebound and increased travel of the ring might supply it with some extra variability. Might look a little odd, but worth a shot.

#8 7 days ago

I’m going to try the oversized ring on my Jumping Jack. I’ll let you know but it will be a couple of days due to thanksgiving traveling.

#9 5 days ago

I haven't tried oversized rubber rings yet, but I did reduce the problem by "de-tuning" the solenoid (at least that is what I think I did). i adjusted the the EOS switch where the leaves separate earlier in the stroke. So far it seems to be helping. Time will tell if it is completely solved. I have noted that the AC coils are still in the pin despite it being conveted to DC. I have some DC, higher resistance coils i can try as a last resort.

#10 5 days ago
Quoted from davidr415:

I have noted that the AC coils are still in the pin despite it being conveted to DC. I have some DC, higher resistance coils i can try as a last resort.

Wouldn't it be easier to reduce the power by removing the rectifiers and converting back to AC?

#11 4 days ago
Quoted from edednedy:

Wouldn't it be easier to reduce the power by removing the rectifiers and converting back to AC?

Perhaps… I may come around to this solution eventually. The person that did the DC conversion used a single rectifier to drive all 4 flippers and the 2 pop bumpers. I’ll have to figure out the circuit now and as it used to be. I like the dc flippers and plan to leave them like that… so.. it may be a better solution to return to AC, but not necessarily easier ( for me).

#12 4 days ago

What edednedy said. I kept the A-4893 AC coils that are standard to Jumping Jack, took off 3 layers of wire off of each coil. The Pops have plenty of power (enough to sometimes reach the drop targets) and I’ve never had that happen for more than a few seconds through thousands of games played.

#13 4 days ago
Quoted from davidr415:Perhaps… I may come around to this solution eventually. The person that did the DC conversion used a single rectifier to drive all 4 flippers and the 2 pop bumpers. I’ll have to figure out the circuit now and as it used to be. I like the dc flippers and plan to leave them like that… so.. it may be a better solution to return to AC, but not necessarily easier ( for me).

curious as to what DC voltage you are seeing on the flippers and pops?

I also at most see a couple seconds of pop to wall bouncing back and forth, but I am stock. Gameplay also changed a lot for the better when I lowered it down in slope. everyone seems to want to crank everything up to make it harder, but I'm still not down to the 3.5 degrees the manual says to put it at, probably 4.5-5. I might have to try the 3.5 (leg levelers all the way in) sometime, but may actually make it too easy to shoot back to the top holes.

#14 3 days ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

curious as to what DC voltage you are seeing on the flippers and pops?
I also at most see a couple seconds of pop to wall bouncing back and forth, but I am stock. Gameplay also changed a lot for the better when I lowered it down in slope. everyone seems to want to crank everything up to make it harder, but I'm still not down to the 3.5 degrees the manual says to put it at, probably 4.5-5. I might have to try the 3.5 (leg levelers all the way in) sometime, but may actually make it too easy to shoot back to the top holes.

30 v dc off of rectifier ( not high tapped). I’ve tried angles from 3.5 to current 6. I get the machine gunning at all angles. Steeper seems better.

#15 3 days ago
Quoted from davidr415:

30 v dc off of rectifier ( not high tapped). I’ve tried angles from 3.5 to current 6. I get the machine gunning at all angles. Steeper seems better.

yeah, 30VDC is kinda high, when gottlieb went DC in system1 it was only 25VDC and they used coils with higher ohms as well. I think they did some later em's with DC flippers and maybe pops but don't know the specs on those.

I'd probably put it back to AC and high tap if you wanted a little boost.

#16 3 days ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

yeah, 30VDC is kinda high, when gottlieb went DC in system1 it was only 25VDC and they used coils with higher ohms as well. I think they did some later em's with DC flippers and maybe pops but don't know the specs on those.
I'd probably put it back to AC and high tap if you wanted a little boost.

I’d try that if I could figure out how. All the dc wiring was done in one color of wire and efficiently bundled so not obvious where wires go or come from. I’ll dig deeper!

#17 2 days ago

I'd love to see how its wired. I wanted to do the same thing to a few games using 1 rectifier. I have an EM Cleopatra with the DC pops and flippers and its a lot more reactive. For the flippers, they use A-17875 and the pops are A-1496. May try those coils?

Edit*** Not sure if they will fit, on the back of the manual it lists new items appearing in this game and has new coil mounting bracket and stops for the flipper and pop bumper coils. I think the coil stops are different for DC coils?

#18 2 days ago
Quoted from BubbaK:

I'd love to see how its wired. I wanted to do the same thing to a few games using 1 rectifier. I have an EM Cleopatra with the DC pops and flippers and its a lot more reactive. For the flippers, they use A-17875 and the pops are A-1496. May try those coils?
Edit*** Not sure if they will fit, on the back of the manual it lists new items appearing in this game and has new coil mounting bracket and stops for the flipper and pop bumper coils. I think the coil stops are different for DC coils?

When I get a few minutes, I'll map out the wiring and share it.
I have some Williams AE-23-800-03 which seem equivalent to the A-5194 (recommended for DC conversion according to one article I read) so I may stick one in just to see what happens.

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