(Topic ID: 163377)

Gottlieb Jet Spin wont start, game over relay energized

By pinzrfun

3 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 63 days ago by currieddog
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders


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#1 3 years ago

Hi guys, pretty new to EM repairs. I bought a 1977 Gottlieb Jet Spin last weekend that wont start. The lights for player 4 are always on, and the game over relay is always energized. When I hit the start button, all score reels reset properly and the lights in the backbox cycle through the player but the 4th player ones stay on the entire time. I've checked the Z1 and Z2 relays, AX and BX realyas, the game over and start relays, all seem to be adjusted correctly, as well as all of the score reel switches. All stepper units have been shined up and Teflon lubed and move freely also.
I don't have a schematic - what else could be causing the game over relay to keep pulling in?

Pic shows how player 4 lights stay on.

Thanks for any help - Don


#2 3 years ago

Any help appreciated....

#3 3 years ago

Pinzer: I cannot impress upon you enough: Get the wiring schematics. If you are new to repairing pins or new to repairing electromechanical pins (EM's) then you will probably never figure it out unless you have the schematics. I have the 2-player "Super Spin". Here is the chain of events that occur when you plug the machine in and then hit the replay button (with credits showing on the reel). This is a starter for you. Perhaps you can follow and see how far your game makes it in the sequence.

1. Pressing the replay button with replays up will actuate "V" relay (replay button relay). "V" relay locks in thru a motor 2B switch and will actuate "S" relay.
2. "S" relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. "S" relay starts the motor running.
4. "AX" relay actuates and the "coin" unit subtracts through switches on motor 3C, "S" and "AX" relays and a switch on motor 1A. "Q" relay de-energizes when "AX" relay operates.
5. When "AX" relay actuates, the reset relays "Z1" and "Z2" are energized in sequence by rivets om the "Player " unit, through switches on "AX" relay. (a) Motor 1A steps the "Player" unit, through switches on "AX" relay and "P5B", to the 20th position energizing "Z1". (b) When "Z1" is energized the 1st and 2nd player score units reset to zero through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A and "Z1". When all score units of the 1st and 2nd player are at zero the player unit steps to the 21st position through a normally switch on "Z2" and normally closed switches on all score units of the first two players, actuating "Z2" relay. The 3rd and 4th player score units now reset through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A and "Z2". The player unit continues to its zero position through the closed switches on "Z1", "Z2", "P5B" and motor 1A until "P5B" opens.
6. When "P5B" on the player unit closes, "AX" and "BX" relays reset through motor 4C and switches on "U" and "R" relays. The reset cycles is now complete
7. skip as it covers dropping additional coins in the chute.

If you can get to this point then send me a note and we will cover what happens when you place a ball in the outhole.

#4 3 years ago

Thank you, I'll dig through this in detail tomorrow in front of the game.

#5 3 years ago

I have a schematic for a Super Spin, the 2 player version. If you need a pic, let me know.

Edit: Sorry FordTudor. I didn't read all of your post until after I posted my comment.

#6 3 years ago

I was in a hurry when I wrote the above. Under #5 it should read ...steps to the 21st position through a NORMALLY closed switch on "Z2" and...

Here's the rest after you get the game to reset.

8. Place the ball in the outhole. The ball return switch closes and completes the circuit to "O" relay through the normally closed switches of 15th position "Bonus" unit, motor 1C, motor 2B, "Q" and "AX" relays. "O" relay locks in. Through switches on motor 1A, motor 4C, "BX" and "O" the ball return coil actuates kicking the ball onto the runway.

9. The remaining balls that enter the outhole are kicked across the trough switch which pulls in "P" relay. "P" relay runs the motor. Switches on motor 2C, "P" and motor 1A through switches normally closed on "G", "U" and "BX" relays advances the "player" unit the required number of steps determined by the "player" unit switches and the "coin" unit.

10. The 3-5 ball adjustment changes the number of balls played per game. The third or fifth ball leaving the playfield will trip the "last ball" relay "BX" through switches on "G", "U", rivets on the player unit disc and "O" relay.

#7 3 years ago

slam switch...

#8 3 years ago

So now that I know the entire startup sequence, what could typically be causing the game over relay to remain energized? Slam switch is open

#9 3 years ago

As stated previously I have a "Super Spin". I have the schematics for it. I presume much of the wiring is the same. "Q" Game Over relay is fed by three branches, which means any one of them will energize the coil. The wire feeding this coil should be orange/green. One comes from Motor 4C. One comes from a make/break switch on "R" Hold relay. The third comes from a make/break switch on "AX" Reset Completed relay BUTT there is a "Q" switch between this "AX" relay and the "Q" relay. This means that when the "Q" relay is pulsed (pulled in) that this "Q" switch closes and holds the relay in. It will stay that way until the "AX" relay goes into the break condition. SO if the "AX" relay is not being energized then the "Q" relay will stay energized all the time. Take your finger and move the switch stack on "AX" relay and see what that does. It's a starting point. There's a bazillion switches and relays upstream of the three branch lines discussed. That's why you really need the schematics.

2 weeks later
#11 3 years ago

So I went over to help the op out today at lunch and the hold relay is not staying energized once you push the start button. It should corrrct?

#12 3 years ago

Hold should hold that's for sure

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Hold should hold that's for sure

When you turn the game on right?

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

When you turn the game on right?

When you press start it should pull in

#15 2 years ago

Schematic on the way from Pinball Resource.

2 years later
#16 65 days ago

how did you get that hold relay to energize?

#17 63 days ago

I bet it's a make/break on the notoriously tetchy AX. Check these, which lead into Game Over. Tilt Hold (H) is also affected by it.

Capture (resized).PNG
#18 63 days ago

From Clay's guide: " Gottlieb Ax/Bx Latch Relay Adjustment.
In 1975 when Gottlieb abandoned the reset bank in favor of the Coin unit and Ax/Bx relay setup on multi-player games, this made game repair a bit more challenging. The big problem with the Ax relay is the lack of switch travel. This means the switches on these latch relays must be adjusted perfectly or the game will not reset. For example, the score motor will continue to run, and the game will never finish its reset cycle if there's an Ax/Bx/Cx/Dx relay problem.

Adjusting these Gottlieb latch relays is more of an art than a science. It takes some practice, and some experimentation to get it right. I can offer some suggestions that should help. First is make sure the switch stacks are tight before you do any switch adjustment (this applies to all relay switch adjustments.) Next make sure that the moving blades have enough back pressure to snap the armature plate to "home" when the latch releases the armature plate. The armature should not come back "soft", but should make a noticeable click. This ensures the most switch travel and precise activation of the armature plate. Last you need to adjust the switches. No rocket science here, just make sure you get as much wiping motion as possible on the switch contacts, without making the contact too close together when the switches are open."

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