(Topic ID: 278368)

Gottlieb Jacks Open sequence issue

By Spyder138

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 8 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Spyder138
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Jacks Open P relay (resized).jpg
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#1 3 years ago

I am trying to learn to be more self sufficient in trouble shooting so if someone is able to point me in the right direction and provide the logic behind the direction I would appreciate it.

Jacks Open set to 5 ball. I was able to fix a couple of issues related to a 2nd chute error and a pop bumper, but still have a couple ongoing issues. Start up is now fine and ball unit registers ball 1. All rollovers, pop bumpers and rebound switches register points immediately when triggered. The first issue is that the drop targets do not register points immediately when dropped. If you knock down the Jacks, the Shoot for Jacks light goes out, but the targets do not reset and the machine does not advance to Shoot for Queens. When the ball drains, the points are added and the targets reset, however, the shoot for Queens does not illuminate. This will continue for all 5 balls. Once the 5th ball drains, the machine sends a 6th ball to the shooter lane, but shows game over and flippers are dead. At this point, if I manually trigger Jacks, the targets reset and add points as they should when a live ball is in play and you can move through the entire sequence. I cleaned all the target contacts and had to adjust a couple since they were making contact when they should have been open. I have the schematic and manual, but obviously I am a bit lost. Ball unit issue, sequence issue relay issue? It seems to me that the issue is somewhere before the reset "ball count" unit since once the ball count unit moves, the targets reset and add points, and I am assuming that when in the 6th position the reset "ball count" unit doesn't come into play?

#2 3 years ago

The P/Target Bank Reset relay should fire when you complete the 2 jacks (or whatever sequence it's waiting for). Does it? When the P relay fires it should advance the Sequence Unit among other things.

/Mark

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

The P/Target Bank Reset relay should fire when you complete the 2 jacks (or whatever sequence it's waiting for). Does it? When the P relay fires it should advance the Sequence Unit among other things.
/Mark

The P relay did not fire. I do not see any obvious issues with connections. The 3 rear contacts are open and the front contacts are currently closed.

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#4 3 years ago
Quoted from Spyder138:

The P relay did not fire.

I'd start by figuring out why the P relay doesn't fire. Here is its part of the schematic:
Jacks Open P relay (resized).jpgJacks Open P relay (resized).jpg
The path in red is the circuit that needs to complete if you're trying to advance past the pair of jacks. The Sequence Unit is a step unit that selects the combination of targets you need to achieve next. So once you get both jacks the Sequence unit should advance one step (from position 0 to position 1) and the double red arrow on the schematic will select the three queens switches instead of the two jacks switches.

Have you checked that your Sequence Unit can advance and reset reliably? If not, unplug the game, find the step unit labeled Sequence Unit and manually push the plungers into the solenoids one at a time. One solenoid should advance the Sequence unit one position so the wipers all move to the next contact on the contact board. The other solenoid should reset the Sequence unit so it returns back to its reset position. In both cases you should be able to push the solenoid plunger all the way in with your finger, then let it snap back into position under its own spring power. Unless it can step cleanly and have the wipers land right on top of contacts below the Sequence Unit may need to be cleaned.

If the Sequence Unit is stepping well you'll need to examine the other switches in the circuit either with a meter or by bypassing them with an aligator clip test lead to figure out why the P relay won't fire.

#5 3 years ago

Thanks for this. It helps me better understand the schematic.

The sequence unit seems to work just fine when the machine is on "Ball 6" that gets kicked out after the game is over. Obviously, the flippers don't work, but if I knock down targets manually they reset just fine and move to the next sequence all the way through multiple resets of the royal flush hand. Scoring also works fine while on "ball 6". The sequence just does not advance when ball 1-5 are in play and only awards score once the ball drains.

I will manually test the Sequence Unit solenoids tomorrow.

#6 3 years ago

Hi Spider138, MarkG
The Jacks Open does faulty kick out ball-6. Correct is "now the flipperbats do not work" --- see my JPG - also inclueded (cut) is also "Self-Hold-Current on G-Drop-Target-Score-Relay" --- my question: Does in ball-1 through ball-5 the G-Relay pull-in at a time - but soon let go after ? --- or stays it faulty pulling until reaching ball-6 ? Greetings Rolf

0Jacks-Open-Work-01 (resized).jpg0Jacks-Open-Work-01 (resized).jpg
#7 3 years ago

MarkG, I was able to confirm that the Sequence unit moves freely and resets properly when manually advanced and rest, and that once ball 6 is reached it will do so as expected.

Rolf, when playing ball 1-5, the (G) Drop Target Score relay does engage after a sequence is successfully made, but only after the ball drains. It should do so before the ball drains. Once on ball 6, it will engage properly as soon as a sequence is made.

It does not appear that the hold relay (R) is engaging at all.

6 months later
#8 2 years ago

Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but was looking through my saved threads and realized I never provided the solution to my issue in case someone else has the same problem.

One of the contacts was missing on the G relay. I found it in the bottom of the machine, resoldered it to the blade, and the drop targets began scoring and resetting properly.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

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