(Topic ID: 172508)

Gottlieb Jack in the Box start-up sequence repair needed in Milwaukee

By new_coke

3 years ago

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  • 20 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by rolf_martin_062
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#1 3 years ago

Hello friends, long time owner of a 1973 Gottlieb Jack in the Box that is having issues with the start-up sequence. I turn on the unit, add a credit (it is set-up to not require coins to operate, instead a button is pressed on the outside of the coin door to add players), and the scoring motor continously runs but the scoring reels do not reset. If I manually reset the scoring wheels to zero the scoring motor stops spinning. Now that the scoring motor stopped, I could trigger the bumpers with my hand and it was scoring properly (I had the playfield open). I beleive I had isolated my start-up issues to the scoring reels not resetting to zero. I visually inspected the score units for anything obvious that could be wrong but nothing was noticeable. I carefully removed the score units and cleaned the contacts with Q-tips and alcohol. I did the same with the score unit relays also in the upper cabinet. I also cleaned the stepper unit as it is right in front of your face when working in the upper cabinet. The contacts were all extremely dirty and I went through quite a bit of Q-tips. I beleive I did more wrong than good even with my best efforts to be careful. When turning on the machine, the scoring motor continuously spins, the scoring wheels still do not reset to zero and now the scoring motor will not stop even if I manually reset the scoring reels to zero. At this point I would be more comfortable finding someone with experience to repair it. Can anyone refer me to someone in the Milwaukee WI area that could assist?

#2 3 years ago

Let's see if we can help you troubleshoot before help arrives

With all the score reels at non-zero do any of the relays Z1, Z2 or Z3 operate when you press the start button?

#3 3 years ago

Thank you for the reply. I will certainly give it another go to possibly find the issue and fix it or isolate the problem further. I will let you know what I find tonight.

#4 3 years ago

Glad to be able to try and help you out - I have the schematics open and ready

I have a soft spot for JITB as it was the first game I owned way back in 1983. I was attracted by the 10 drop targets and boobs - and I haven't changed a bit in all these years lol.

#5 3 years ago

I've had this machine now for over 15 years but has sat dormant stored in my basement for close to 10. From what I know these EM's don't like to sit unused. Very much looking forward to getting it working properly again.

#6 3 years ago

I should note I have ordered the schematics and a proper contact adjusting tool from Marco Specialties but do not have them just yet.

#7 3 years ago

Machine plugged in, turn it on, the scoring motor does not spin. Pressing the credit button on the outside of the coin door does not do anything either. I will note the coil on the inside of the coin door as seen in the picture is buzzing very loud - it is the coil I am pointing to with the screw driver. Thoughts?

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#8 3 years ago

That's the coin lockout coil - it should be operated when the game is turned on and is usually burned and noisy You can safely disconnect the wires (tape them up) if you have the game already set to free play. When the coil is not operating (i.e. game turned off) the wire fingers attached to the coin lockout bar divert any coins to the eject slot to prevent people losing money in a game that isn't turned on.

#9 3 years ago

FYI, this is the startup sequence from the Jack In The Box manual:

1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. 'S' relay starts the motor running.
4. 'SB' relay and the total play meter are actuated by switches on motor 1A and motor 4B through a switch that has been closed on 'S' relay.
5. When 'SB' relay is tripped, the reset relays 'Z1', 'Z2', and 'Z3' are energized in sequence to reset the score units and the 'player' unit. 'Z3' opens the circuit to 'Z2' and 'Z1' until all the 4th player score units and the 1,000's and 10,000's score units of the 3rd player are reset through motor switches. When these units are at zero 'Z3' falls out and through a normally closed switch on 'Z3' reset relay 'Z2' is energized. 'Z2' opens the circuit to 'Z1' until all the 2nd player score units and the 10's and 100's score units of the 3rd player are reset through motor switches. When these units are at zero 'Z2' falls out and through a normally closed switch on 'Z2' reset relay 'Z1>' is energized. 'Z1' stays energized until all the 1st player score units are reset through motor switches. At the same time the player unit steps up to its zero position through a motor 1A switch in series with a switch on 'SB' and a run-off switch on the 'player' unit (P5B).
6. The control bank is reset by a switch on motor 3C through a switch on 'U' relay.
7. Inserting additional coins or pushing the replay button will actuate the 2nd player relay (PB2) through motor 4B switch; the 3rd player relay (PB3) through motor 2C and PB2 switches; and the 4th player relay (PB4) through motor 1D and PB3 switches; in that order.
8. Place the ball in the outhole. The outhole switch completes a circuit to 'E' relay. A witch on 'E' relay completes a circuit to 'F' relay through motor 3C. When 'F' relay energizes it closes a switch that completes the circuit to 'O' relay if the bonus unit is at zero position.
9. 'O' relay locks in through its own switch and a switch on motor 2B.
10. When 'O' relay is energized the motor starts running.
11. Motor 4C actuates the ball return coil (which kicks the ball onto the runway) through a switch on 'O'.
12. The ball is now on the runway and is ready to be put into play.
13. The remaining balls that enter the outhole are kicked across the trough switch which pulls in 'P' relay. 'P' relay runs the motor. Switches on 'XB', 'ZB', motor 2C, 'P', and motor 1A advances the 'Player' unit the required number of steps determined by the 'Player' unit switches and the player relays (PB2, PB3, PB4).

(from http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0480.html)

#10 3 years ago

Good to know. I will disconnect it. At the number 1 player score reel found a broken wire on the 1000's reel. When removing the reel I broke a second wire. Fortunately I could see where they went and I labeled them so I know where to solder them back to. I also found the spring mechanism in the score reel is not set properly. This no doubt caused be me manually resetting the score reel to zero.

#11 3 years ago

Broken wires 2 and 4 - I will be repairing these next.

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#12 3 years ago

The black arm inside of the score reel is not in place. I will investigate on another score reel to see how it should be set.

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#13 3 years ago

Woz and jeffc, thank you for your replies. I will start trouble shooting following the sequence after I repair this score wheel.

#14 3 years ago

Google: Paul Reno
Home Game Room Supply
Raymond WI

You'll be chasing gremlins unless you get it gone over/shopped.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from presqueisle:

Google: Paul Reno
Home Game Room Supply
Raymond WI
You'll be chasing gremlins unless you get it gone over/shopped.

If you want done right the first time call paul reno. He's the best in the area.

#16 3 years ago

Here's an update for anyone that might be interested. I reached out to two different individuals and inquired about having them repair my Jitb. Unfortunately, the cost to have someone else repair it far exceeds the value of the pinball machine. As great as it would be to have the mechanicals torn down and completely gone through, the budget just won't allow it.

I'm going to repair it myself, the schematics are on the way. Being new around here I want to know should I start a new thread or keep this one going?

#18 3 years ago

Appreciated Hi-Fi.

#19 3 years ago

I am jumping right to section 2g "Before Turning the Game On: Score Reels and Score Reel Relays" in the link you provided. I found the broken wires on the 1st player 1000's score reel as seen above and I also found a broken switch on the 1st player 100's reel as seen in the picture here (pointing to it with my screwdriver).

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#20 3 years ago

Hi new_coke
the "most I like" is to help on a pin I do have the schematics and I do have the pin. I do NOT have an Jack in the Box pin - I do have the schematics and (+/-) close in time: Far Out pin and schematics.

Score-Drums: We will come to.
jeffc showed the "daina-Startup-procedure" - I would like to go through this procedure - THERE ARE things done NOT mentioned in the procedure - things BEFORE the daina-text comes-in.

I want to start at the VERY beginning.
Toggle-off the pin, UNPLUG the 110VAC power cord (Safety reasons). Whenever You "just look" or "fumble in the pin, work": HAVE the 110VAC main power cord unplugged !. ONLY when You want to do a test and NEED electricity: THEN plug-in, toggle-on, start a game --- KEEP Your hands away from metal in the pin.
Look here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1277&picno=13276 --- these 10 Drop-Down-Targets are resetted from time to time - 110VAC (!!!) is used for resetting. Other Relays, Stepper-Units and here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1277&picno=29335 - on the bottom of the picture is the HUGE Relay-Bank called "Control-Bank" - such stuff is operated by 25 VAC --- and the lights are operated by 6VAC. DO NOT touch metal when the pin is plugged-in, toggled-on.

See my JPG - do You have paper-tags on the bottom in the "Cabinet" of Your pin - at the Control-Bank ? From Left to right the "LB PB2 PB3 etc." ? Again, look at http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1277&picno=29335 - (from left to right) see that the 7th and the 8th stuff looks different ? These are "QB-Game-Over-Relay, XB-Last-Ball-Relay".

HAVE the 110VAC power cord UNPLUGGED. See in the ipdb-picture above the Control-Bank on the left and on the right a "block" and a block" - the windings on these "coil and on a coil" produce magnetism and then the metal rods (called plunger) are moved away from us (as we are looking at the picture). When the Control-Bank is actuated this way: It resets - on the very bottom in the ipdb-picture some stuff is moved --- the relays sitting side by side are resetted.

HAVE the 110VAC power cord UNPLUGGED. In Your pin: Hold on the left and the right plunger and move the plunger away from You --- You MANUALLY reset the Control-Bank.

NOW plug-in the 110 VAC cord - WATCH carefully at ZB-Relay and QB-Relay - WATCH and toggle-on the main power switch --- question: Do ZB- and QB- MOVE (we say they trip --- they have tripped). Depending on Your answer we have to look at different places to proceed in testing, greetings Rolf

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