Is the score motor also running continuously too?

If you disconnect the small Jones plug the runs from the playfield to the backbox and it stops, then it's a 10pt scoring feature. If it continues, then it's the reset path.

No, not the motor service plug. The Jones plug that attaches the playfield to the backbox. Usually there are three (or so) Jones plugs that attach inside the backbox. Two come up from the bottom board, and one runs from the playfield. Unplug the one from the playfield.

I have Ice Review/schematic etc but not being an expert, not enough for me to come forward with anything useful.

All I can think of and may be miles off base is that numbers 1 - 6 score 10 points. Presume none of the switches closed or wires touching at the back?

I will keep tabs on the thread if I can add anything useful!

Hi Topcard
DirtFlipper asks "Is the Score-Motor also running continuosly too ?" You should answer.
When playing a ball: the 10-Point-Score-Reel steps - because You make 10 points.
During the "Reset": The Score-Motor pulses the Score-Reels.

So IT IS important: "Is the Score-Motor also running continuosly too ?". Greetings Rolf

yes, that's what that would suggest. But just to doubly confirm, with the Jones plug back in, while the 10s is running up, observe the N relay and see if it's pulsing. If so, then that's due to a score feature and not reset.

The score motor running suggests that the scoring feature problem is due to something that scores a multiple of 10, like 50 points.

So another thing to check is whether the 50pt relay is stuck on while this is happening (I think that's the 'V' relay). Then if that's also true, the next thing to figure out is what's causing V to get stuck on.

Anyway plug back the Jones plug, watch if N is pulsing along, then check if V is stuck on.

Check switches at each hole.

Play worse I guess. I never have the problem of my games not scoring. I have the problem of them not scoring enough.

The 5-point relay is pulsing (which will run the score motor), but the 1-point relay in the head is not? And 10 points are being scored, and not 1 (or 5 at a time)? Does the 5-point relay stay energized for a 1/3 rev of the score motor, or is it just pulsing quickly?

Could be two separate things at play here, but just wanted to confirm that's what it's doing for sure.

I had a similar issue on a machine. I saw that two of the post (where the wires are soldered)on the reset relay or the scoring relay [cant remember] were touching. It made the scoring wheels contunue to run. Might be worth a quick look.

Those activate (and alternate) with the score motor running.

This trips following completion of the score reel reset, and stays tripped until next game start.

But the U relay is only activated by a switch on the Q relay (normally). Is the Q relay also activating?

Otherwise, the lock-in switch on U could also be creating a path to activating it, if it was stuck closed. It would then de-energize whenever motor 2B opened, then energize again. But if U is activating, a switch closing there should be activating the 1-point relay (N).

Anyway, from the existing problems, finding out what's causing U to activate seems best. So it's either from Q activating, or from U's own lock-in switch.

I'd check the 4 side drains, bottom of the playfield. These 4 rollovers have 2 switches each. They are 5 points when not lit, 50 points when lit and both switches need to make when the rollover actuator is depressed. Check the other end of each switch making sure you don't have a wire lug touching another.

Now that you revealed it's the 5 point relay staying energized, and not the 50 point relay, probably safe to assume the hole switches are OK.

Once all score reels reach "0" the reset relay, (on the bank), will energize, stopping the score motor enabling you to begin your game. This relay is in the reset state ONLY during the reset mode. Once everything has been reset, the relay will energize, and you will notice it is in the tripped state the rest of the time. You are correct in that the 100's reel keeps moving because its "Run-out" Switch is not making well at 0 and needs to be cleaned.

Is it only doing that on the outlane?

If you manually activate the V relay, does it score 50 pts?

yes, I think that's correct.

What's curious though is that both the kickout holes and the bottom rollovers activate the 'V' relay, and the 'V' relay is what scores the 50 points.

The kickout hole switch activates the C relay, and a switch on C activates V. V then locks in via its own switch and a switch at motor 2B.

But the four bottom rollovers also activate V, and once activated, V should behave the same (i.e., lock in and score the 50pts). The only difference is that in order for a bottom rollover to be worth 50 pts, the 1, 2, 5, or 6 target needs to have been achieved, which lights one of the rollovers for 50 pts.

So would be interested to know how V behaves when activated alone.

Another thing to observe is how long V stays locked on when a bottom rollover only scores 40 pts. To get 50 pts, it should stay energized for the full 1/3 rev of the score motor (to get the full five scoring pulses from it).

As I mentioned above, each of the 4 outlanes have 2 switches underneath. Also, outholes are scoring 50, so the V lock circuit is fine.

So at this point:

- if you activate the V relay, it locks on, 50 points are scored, then V lets go. Correct?

- if you activate the C relay, V then energizes, and 50 points are scored. Correct?

- if you trip one of 1T, 2T, 5T, or 6T (these are the Target relays on the Sequence bank), then activate the corresponding lit bottom rollover, V energizes, but only 40 points are scored? And V stays energized for the same duration as above?

Since both the C relay (for the kickout holes) and the bottom rollovers all end up energizing V, and V is what controls scoring 50 points, I'm not seeing a way for it to only score 40, given the paths are in common.

If you activate C a few times, does it always score 50, or does it ever score 40? If it sometimes also scores 40, then that would make more sense.

Interesting. Sounds like it was fighting with the 5-point scoring (Q and U are for 5-points on the bottom rollovers).

Good catch!