Hi mikusm
I start to read Your post-1 ... including incrementing the player unit to ball1/player1 and kicks out the ball - well, so far so good, THEN ", three times" - this "three times" I do not understand, please explain.

It is tricky to do strange stuff in an EM-Pin - hard to look-up in the schematics so I would like to do a start-up and then play a game.
See here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1247&picno=64977&zoom=1 on the bottom is "left to right" the Control-Bank with its huge Reset-Arm. Please toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - then manually move the Reset-Arm - all relays do reset. Then plug-in the main power cord - then watch the Control-Bank while You toggle-on the main power switch - do You see the "QB-Game-Over-Relay(s) and the ZB-First-Ball-Relay" plunge / drop ? Then start a new game --- the pin does resetting - finally the Player-Unit steps to its Home-Position (Player-1-Ball-1) AND the pin does reset the Control-Bank (does Your pin do ?) - then the ball is kicked out. Now please make some tens points - make some hundreds points - big question: Does the ZB-First-Ball-Relay in the Control-Bank "plunge/drop" ?
(((We talk later about the Player-Unit - basically it is one step after - after - after --- Home-Position is Player-1-Ball-1 - then Player-2-Ball-1 - then Player-3-Ball-1 - then Player-4-Ball-1 - then Player-1-Ball-2 and so on))) Greetings Rolf

Hi mikusm
good - the pin does resetting and in the end the huge Reset-Arm on the Control-Bank fires and resets all relays in the Control-Bank. - Then the problem "no kicking out the ball". Then You describe stuff that only an owner of an "Hot Shot" can try to "reproduce on his pin". I do not have an Hot Shot - I would like to dig in into "Ball does not kick out".

currieddog shows a snippet in post-6 --- I show "a bit greater / larger area" - see the JPG - on top marked "blue": The Ball-Kicker fires when the O-Outhole-Relay is pulling (switch therefore is closed) and the motor runs and closes "motor-4C" - and we are not on the last ball in play so "XB-Relay" is not activated.
The O-Outhole-Relay fires when (bottom of JPG, marked "brown") a lot of stuff happens - of interest specifically: "Switch on Q-Ball-Return-Relay" is closed.
The Q-Relay fires (marked grey) when a lot of stuff happens - of interest specifically: "Ball-Return-Switch is closed" - the Switch below the Outhole - we often call it "Outhole-Switch".

Ask a friend to help - have the playfield raised - the friend puts a finger in the Outhole - this simulates "Ball is laying there": You start a game - when it comes to "NOW the ball should be kicked out": Wear rubber gloves or use a wooden stick - Press the armature of "Q-Relay" - question: What happens ? If nothing happens: Press the armature of O-Relay - question: What happens ? Greetings Rolf

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Hi Mike
great, You could fix the problem. The Gottlieb Manuals / Startup-Procedures are NOT "in detail" --- see HowardR 's JPG in post-11 --- see the JPG here: The P-Relay gets Initial-Current through the closing of the Through-Switch - the P-Relay actuates - therefore its Self-Hold-Switch closes AND THIS makes the O-Relay to pull-in - AND the pulling-in O-Relay THEN makes the motor to run.

In post-10 You write "How does the Player Circuit work ?" Are You happy with the situation "fixed" - or do You want to look at "How does the Player-Unit sometimes does only one step (4-Player-Game) - always four steps (1-Player-Game) - 1 or 2 or 3 steps depending on 2- or 3-Player-Game and what player was playing" ? Greetings Rolf

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Hi Mike
Late Gottlieb 4-Player-Pins do no longer have this strange logic (the pulling-in of P-Relay makes the O-Relay to pull-in) --- see the first JPG "Surf Champ".
I learned about the "strange logic" on my "Orbit" - my Orbit fires the Ball-Return-Coil (Outhole-Kicker) TWICE --- I thought "fault" - but, see the second JPG --- everytime I make 100 points: the light steps one step counterclockwise --- when a full circle is made I get a bonus added to the bonus ladder. When I loose the ball: The stepper must step forward (+/- reset), this is done by the pulling O-Relay and the Score-Motor doing a turn of 120 degrees, pulsing five times.
BUT sometimes the stepper must step 6,7,8,9 steps forward --- Gottlieb invented the "strange logic" - the O-Relay is made pulling a second time and so the stepper is made stepping - reaching its Zero-Position. Greetings Rolf

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