If you need some, let me know and I will ship a few your way free of charge.

Will do that this evening ! Thanks!

Sir Scott that was it ! First plunger was stuck to the foam softener at the bottom. from the looks of it they haven’t had sound for years? Wow Now all 3 chimes are ringing like they should. That’s another problem solved

Weird - beside it still going into game over mode after ball 1 and kicking out the next ball - my credit counter - when ever either if the rotating pins hit the relay blades - it wont restart. I have to manually rotate that around to clear the blades. Then I can go again. One ball at a time.

All lights are working The two 1k point routes at the top aren’t scoring and some of the drop targets are sticking
But I think a general clean up will fix those.

Just need to get this off the one ball game over issue and I’ll have this one finished !

Sorry. But I’ll update as I get something accomlished.
First - the two 1k routes at the top weren’t registering when ball went down. Went in and cleaned the relays (took a business card between them -is this really what cleans these things ?) well it worked. Stroked them manually a few times then ran the ball accross them both. All back to working.

Then the drop downs. There is a bank of 7 on each side. They too just needed to be stroked a few times. All seem to be working again.

I think this machine just sat for too long and it just needs someone to use it!

Now. Back to the 1 ball game over issue! Btw - I am cleaning those relays as well but that isn’t fixing this problem.
I do notice when after it scores all bonus points , it then simultaneously raises the drops , kicks the next ball out and game over come on. All at that point together

Does that ring any bells on what that may be ?

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Nothing sadder than an unresolved tech thread. Come back Dan329 and let us know what happened!

Also the 2 player light bank isn’t powering up. The bulbs are fine. Just another item to hunt down . And as I can’t get past ball 1 I don’t know if the multi player is even working. May step back on this one for a few days and work on my RK (just received the rebuild kit so have plenty to do there )

Still on this one ugh. But only 4 issues left (That I know of. Lol)

With extra credits shown it will not let me go to multi player.

After ball 1 drains the drop downs pop up the next ball kicks out and the game over buzzes and lights up (after all the bonus points are awarded)

The credit reel still spins to where either one of the pins touch the relay it will not restart (have to manually rotate it every few games)

Player two (only) light row is not functioning

Don’t know if any/ all of these may be related?

Player 2 lights should be a switch on the player unit that is dirty/misadjusted. Look in the schematics to find which switch.

Is that the small rotating thing in the head with multiple brass(?) rings that touches small screws in the rotating part?

I can go to additional players. Well it takes the credits and the player lights add on per credit. Just can’t verify until I get passed this 1 ball issue. Baby steps’

Ha! That’s it. Thank you. Looking now !

Aha! Player 2 lights now working after I manually stroked that plunger. Player one lights went out. But I know those work.

So maybe this could be the whole issue ? Not stepping to the next player correctly?

On to the next clue Watson!

image (resized).jpg

Well. I can stroke the plunger and make it rotate.
Player 3 & 4 lights stay on. Continuous
Then by rotating I get player 1 on. Or Player 2 on. Or both off. But never 1 & 2 at the same time?

Well cool. That (I think) means the lights and stepper are at least working and the the multi player functions (seem) to be working. (Players 3 & 4 lights do go off once a game is set into play. After game over players 1. 3&4 light up)

If I can just get past this game over after ball one issue. Ugh!

Do you have the schematic for this machine. Sorry if I missed this.

Unfortunately no. Have the manual and original replay card stack but no schematics

For some reason relay QB fires as soon as the ball drain relay activates

Then I have to power off then hit start. That activates the solinoids on the relay bank that resets the game over relay (QB)

Find the ball in play unit. If you're lucky, the stepper units are still labeled. not sure where you will find it but I would start in the backbox. It will look similar to the player unit identified earlier in this thread. make sure it is stepping and resetting properly and that the switches open/close properly at the beginning and end of the stepper cycle.

Sorry. After powering back on of course

I manually went thru each step on that. Just to see if there was a difference. Notta. After a compete cycle I hit restart. It seemed to rotate back to normal and it’s same

image (resized).jpg

If QB is the game over relay, I think the ball unit could definitely be the culprit. it tells the game that the last ball has drained and to fire the QB relay. Since this is a multiplayer game, this signal may run through the player unit too. also check all the switches and wiper contacts on the player unit for anything out of the ordinary. I know this is vague. Hard to do without schematic.

That pic is of the match unit. It steps constantly throughout the game as 10 point targets are hit. Back up a bit and take a pic of the entire backbox.

Ok. Thank you for helping !!

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Is that the “player unit” or “ball unit” at the top in the middle. (Rotating thingy lol)

Hence the label “00-90 unit relay”. I’m learning.

The stepper up high in the center. I believe it is hinged at the bottom and will tip out toward you. There may be a screw or two at the edges or maybe only a retaining clip holding it up. figure out how to lay it down towards you and manually operate it. Make sure it operates freely on every step and resets completely. When you lay it down, you will see a few contacts that are either opened or closed at the beginning and end of the stepper range. Check those too.

Caveat: It has been about 5 years since I have really poked around at an EM machine. I love this stuff but am running kinda blind on this one because of the lack of schematic. If you are going to keep this game, I recommend getting one. They can usually be found at pbresource.com since this is a gottlieb machine.

Checking all of the steppers is always a good thing to do when you get a machine that has been dead for a long time. This includes all the score reels too. There are a lot of contacts that need to make and break at just the right time in these things. Read through clays guides to get more info about how to clean and adjust these steppers.

I've got to hit the road for now. Will check in again this weekend. Sorry to leave you hanging. Hope I have helped at least a little.

guessing that is the player unit. There are more steppers under the playfield and inside the lower cabinet.

I can manually pull the relay bank bar after each drained ball to reset the game over relay. It then moves to the next ball.

If I hit the start button to reset the relays it starts the game back at ball 1.

Don’t know if this helps anyone ?

I can not find the BALL unit / stepper, etc - so not sure it's part of the PLAYER unit? There are only 3 "steppers" on this machine - the bonus, the 10 point (00-90), the player. I cant find one just for the ball count.

Gottlieb games do not have a separate player and ball count stepper units(Williams and Bally 4 player games do). The player unit, the large stepper in the head, advances the ball count and player up. Home position for the player unit is player one/ball one. The next position is player 2 ball 1...then player 3 ball 1.. then player 4 ball 1...then player 1 balls 2..then player 2 ball 2...and so on. After you start a one player game, the bottom left section of the back glass should show just the "1" lit under the word "PLAYERS." Also, "1" should be lit in the bottom right hand side of the backglass under the "BALL IN PLAY." When you start a 1 player game, does your backglass show 1 Player and 1 Ball lit like the photo?
hotshot 1 player (resized).jpg

The quantity of players as shown in the bottom left hand side of the backglass is triggered by the reset bank located on the front of the bottom board in the cabinet. As additional players are added by pressing the start button, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th player relays are activated. These player relays trigger the logic in the number of steps the player unit advances between balls. After the first ball drains on a one player game, the player unit will advance 4 positions skipping player 2 ball one, player 3 ball one, player 4 ball one and stopping on player 1 ball 2.

All that is correct and understood. And yes one player. One ball lights up. And plays. It just goes into game over as soon as ball 1 drains

Right after first ball. It runs thru the bonus section. Kicks the ball out and game over

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The player / ball stepper always resets itself back to around 10:30ish. No matter where I manually step it

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And I see peeps here from NE MD PA OK. All trying to help me. Thank you for your time and paitence !Really mean that!

I don’t know if this is related. But every time either the front or rear pin on the credit reel touches a blade. It will not reset
I have to manualy rotate it to get away for a few games. ? ???

01BC9CE2-5CAB-4F3F-8391-0C07A2A859F0 (resized).jpeg

And photo of it rotated

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So don’t know if problems are related ??

I do not believe the issue is related to the credit unit stepper.

Here is the start up sequence of a 4 player Gottlieb game of this era:
==============================================
1960s & 1970s Gottlieb Start-Up Sequence.
Games with score reels.
Inserting a coin or pressing the coin door start button (Gottlieb calls this the "replay" button) activates the "S" (start) relay. The start relay will lock on from its own switch and a score motor switch.
The "S" relay will energize the main hold relay to illuminate the game (if this is the first game after power-on).
The "S" relay will start the score motor running.
The "S" relay and the score motor increment the total play meter.
The "SB" relay (the secondary start relay) is activated through the score motor. The "SB" relay energizes the reset relays ("Z1" and "Z2"). If a single or two player game, there may be only a "Z" relay.
The "Z2" relay will reset the player 3 and 4 score reels to zero through the score relays (4 player games only). The "Z1" or "Z" relay will reset the player 1 (and player 2 if present) score reels to zero through the score relays.
The "SB" relay resets the player unit through the score motor.
The "U" relay resets the reset bank (or Ax, Bx, relays on 1975 and later multi-player games and Ax on single players) through the score motor. It also resets the bonus unit or drop target banks (if the game has these).
On multi-player games, inserting more coins or pressing the coin door start button activates the "PBx" relay, through the score motor. The "x" represents the player number (from two to four).
If the ball is in the outhole, the "O" relay activates. The "O" relay, through the score motor and a switch on relay "XB", will kick the ball to the shooter lane. Note: the "O" relay will not activate unless the bonus unit (if the game has one) is reset to zero (there is a bonus unit zero position switch).
When the ball re-enters the outhole after game play, the "P" relay kicks the ball back to the shooter lane. Switches on the "XB", "ZB", "P" relays and some score motor switches advances the player unit (if present) and player relays ("PBx"). to occur normally.
====================================================================

I'm wondering if there is an issue with one of the two SB relays on the reset bank which pulse the player unit through the score motor. Examine both of the SB relays on the control bank and make sure they are adjust properly.

After you check the switches on the sb relays, make sure to properly seat the reset bank down as far as it will go before re-tightening the wing nuts. Improperly seated reset banks will cause problems.

Looked at both of those SB & SB2 and cleaned, and verified the wing nuts and edges were smooth on the end per the web.

When I activate the ball drain switch, these are the relays that activate (some are correct):

On the side rail -
O - Ball Return
P - Add Player
DX - Motor ID

Front rail -
QB1 Relay
QB2 Switches

Nothing else moves that I can see

I'm running out of ideas. It bothers me that in game over mode the Player 2 lamps are not lit. I do not know if this is related to the game over issues or not, but I think it is worth looking into. The end of game player two score lamps are activated by the XB (Last Ball) relay on the reset bank. With the game unplugged and the reset bank in a position where you can see the state of the switches. Look for a normally open switch that closes when the XB relay is manually activated. Make sure the normally open switches are closing when the relay is manually activated. Clean these switches. A quality nail file is my tool of choice for cleaning switches. Eventually you will find a high current switch that is corroded to the point where you'll actually have to file away the surface crud.

Check the other switches on that XB relay too. Maybe there is more than one that's out of wack leading to the game over relay tripping after ball one.

Will do, thanks again for the help. I had read somewhere not to file as it may cause damage, so I literally just use alcohol and swipe a business card thru the switches, so I may not be cleaning enough ? Setting gaps, knowing what should be open or closed, that'll be my downfall. I can read a schematic to see that it should be one way or another, but then looking at them, i can not see the difference. Or know how to adjust them.
Like on the item to get free play, it says to close the small switch, which I take it to "bend the blades" until it closes? But, as you may have read in an earlier post, that credit wheel keeps turning, so eventually one of those pins touch a blade, so I have to manually reset that no matter what. (And I can't get it to zero to do this as, to get it to zero the pins hit...ugh) lol

Each switch on a relay changes it state (from open to close or close to open) when the the relay is activated. Make break switches should also change their state (the center blade should move from touching one outer leaf to the other outer leaf) when a relay is activated. The switches on the reset bank are actuated by the relay pulling and the white bars pushing on the switch leafs. You'll need to flip the reset bank up and activate the relay by hand and watch the switch contacts to ensure they are change state. You are really looking for the following:

1. Switches that are closed before and after the relay is activated
2. Switches that are open before and after the relay is activated
3. Make Break switches that are not chaining state or not making contact in either their deactivated or activated position.

Other things to looks for on the reset bank are wires disconnected from their solder points or solder points touching adjacent solder points. A strong light and a magnifying glass may help. Most switches will not need adjustment.

The player two lamps at game end are activated by right hand set of switches on the XB relay(as you are looking at the game from the front). It is not the top switches, but the switches right behind lower white plastic bar. When the game ends, you might be able to take a thin wood dowel and push that 2nd set of switches closed to activate the 2nd player lamps.