(Topic ID: 182845)

Gottlieb "Hot Coil" A-5141


By Playdium

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Budwin
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    Gottlieb Flipper DC flippers (resized).JPG

    #1 2 years ago

    How are "Hot Coils" physically different from a stock A-5141 coil? Additional windings, or change in wire gauge?

    What are the results in applying these to vintage EM's? Curious about possible damaged to play field and or glass.

    #2 2 years ago

    A more powerful version of a coil will typically have fewer windings of the same wire gauge. Alternately, it might have a similar number of windings of a larger diameter wire. The "power" of a coil is roughly inversely proportional to the total resistance. The lower the resistance, the higher the current passing through the windings and the more force the coil will deliver to the flipper bats.

    Some vintage EMs just had notoriously weak flippers and owners desired to pep them up. Other EMs had wear or increased friction in the flipper mechanism, and people would install more powerful coils rather than fix the real issue.

    The orange and yellow versions of the A-5141 are reasonable alternatives to consider. If you have rebuilt the flippers and have properly adjusted EOS switches and your flippers are still weak, consider trying an orange dot. If you install more powerful coils on an older Gottlieb EM and they seem a little too powerful, you can always tone them down by increasing the tension on the return spring or setting the gap on the EOS switches a bit wider.

    Lee

    #3 2 years ago

    In the last line of my prior post, I meant to say you can set the EOS switches to open earlier. That effectively shortens the length of the power stroke.

    #4 2 years ago

    I have been putting the orange dot PBR coils in all of my Gottliebs & IMHO they are just right. Makes the game a lot more fun!

    #5 2 years ago

    You can always move the transformer wire to high tap if you want more oomph. Personally I'm not a fan of the hot coils if the flippers are rebuilt, everything is clean and you have at least 120V at the outlet.

    But the hotter coils are just less windings (lower resistance) than standard coils. My Target Alpha came with the yellow dot coils and a bunch of broken targets and plastics that had to be replaced. I put the standard coils in and it plays just fine. EMs aren't supposed to play like Iron Man.

    #6 2 years ago

    My Rules
    NEVER put orange dot on 3" flipper games . you will break the drop targets and damage plastics and many other bad things will happen . there is no need for these. as stated above there are several things you can do to "Liven up " your game .

    It is ok to put orange dot on 2" flipper games I put them on most of my wedge heads .

    My 2c

    Sir Brian of Ortonville

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bribo13:

    My Rules
    NEVER put orange dot on 3" flipper games . you will break the drop targets and damage plastics and many other bad things will happen . there is no need for these. as stated above there are several things you can do to "Liven up " your game .
    It is ok to put orange dot on 2" flipper games I put them on most of my wedge heads .
    My 2c
    Sir Brian of Ortonville

    BS on breaking plastics. Probably have 1,000 games on my 3" orange dot pins. Nothing broken yet.

    #8 2 years ago

    Installed an A-5141 hot on my Bally Wizard! and it was too hot. Replaced that with a regular A-5141, adjusted the EOS switch, and it works beautifully. This was only done to the right flipper. I have an A-5141 hot coil installed for the right flipper on a Gottlieb Atlantis and love it! Raise the rear leg levelers up a bit and you've got a pretty fast machine.

    2 months later
    #9 2 years ago

    You can turn a regular AC coil A-5141 into a 'hot' coil by converting it to DC. (if done properly)

    My experience is described in post #9 of this thread:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wild-life-or-jungle-resto-and-mods

    For that pin it made the 3" flippers supply just the right amount of power.

    Your mileage may vary, but for me it did exactly what I was looking for.

    Bud

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from Budwin:

    You can turn a regular AC coil A-5141 into a 'hot' coil by converting it to DC. (if done properly)

    Smoking hot.

    IMO:
    Regular 5141 < High Tap < Orange Dot < Yellow Dot <<<< DC

    I don't agree with Mike on the hot coils causing broken parts. I've got plenty of games with broken parts and regular coils. I've never broke a part with a hot coil.

    I did, however, have a bad experience with DC flippers on a Big Indian. This wasn't your run of the mill broken plastic either. The flippers were so hot that you could backhand it all the way to the arch on the left side of the PF. The STEEL arch was all peened over and bent in this area from backhand shots. That was way too much. It had been an operator mod and at the time, I was sort of a newbie and didn't figure out what was going on for awhile. The operator had run 2 bridges, one for each flipper - which in retrospect was probably unnecessary.

    The one good thing about DC flippers is that it eliminates any buzz. I personally don't like it and probably won't do it again. - But note that some of the last Gottliebs actually had this feature. Hit the Deck comes to mind, as well as at least some, if not all, the System 1/ EM crossovers

    Personally, I find high tap to be plenty - and it's free!!

    I do own a selection of orange and yellow dots. I've tried them and taken them in and out of games, depending on what I feel makes the game the most fun. Usually, I just rebuild, tune and high tap. You might try that before spending $20 or more on coils.

    #11 2 years ago

    I see you added a resistor, that was a good call and something not included in my experience. That would probably make it pretty reasonable.

    #12 2 years ago

    In post #12 of that thread I show the LOWER power consumed with the DC flipper coils. (power split between resistor and coils)

    You can hold the flipper on for as long as you like and it will NOT overheat.

    Hold the flipper on a normal AC powered A-5141 and see how hot it gets !

    Bud

    #13 2 years ago

    What I do and don't do:

    Replace Regular 5141 Flipper Coils with PBR Orange Dot (5% more power). Both 2" and 3" Flippers get them unless it is a four Flipper game then the Bottom Flippers get Orange Dot and the Top Flippers retain the Regular Coils (i.e. El Dorado/King Pin/Jack in the Box/etc).

    Never use PBR Yellow Dot Flipper or Pop Bumper Coils (Just way too much power - wish PBR would sell Orange Dot Pop Bumper Coils)

    Never High Tap the Transformer. (a game dialed in after using my method will be plenty fast, high tapping would be too much)

    With new Flipper and Pop Bumper rebuild kits, 4-1/2-5% Playfield incline, along with the Orange Dot Flipper Coils my machines rock and still maintain that original feeling of how these machines played back n the day.

    Your mileage may vary.

    #14 2 years ago

    I should say the hold+main coil power is reduced, but the total power is more. (resistor 17W + coils 15W = 32W)

    The normal AC hold+main coil would be dissipating about 18W. (AC impedance is always tricky)

    So, with DC circuit the total power goes up, but coil power goes down. (with DC the hold power of flipper still goes way up)

    For DC you have to put the resistor in there or the DC power dissipated by the coil would be: 24vDC squared / 9 Ohms = 64W !

    Would really be smoking hot !

    I just like this way to get better flipper action because I have resistors and bridge rectifiers laying around. (but if you don't they are cheap)

    Bud

    #15 2 years ago

    This is the circuit I used to make my regular A-5141 coils with 3 inch flippers work like modern flippers.

    You can control the flipper kick by simply adjusting the EOS switch.

    No need to replace or tweak all those mechanics and coils to get some Gottlieb 'flipper satisfaction'.

    Bud

    Gottlieb Flipper DC flippers (resized).JPG

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