(Topic ID: 229183)

Gottlieb happyclown score reel problem

By Lambecka

5 years ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Pinkas
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CA613FCC-D190-4967-92F4-DF0A1C68B18E (resized).jpeg
Happy Clown XB relay 2 (resized).jpg
Happy Clown XB relay (resized).jpg
Happy Clown Balls Played (resized).jpg
#1 5 years ago

Gottlieb Happy clown is a four players game and when i start a one player,game following happens.
Starting with the first ball in one playergame and as soon loosing the ball game switch over to second ball but also puts a score on player two and in a two players game some times on the other reels as well whem loosing ball.
Please some assistance

#2 5 years ago

The scoring in Happy Clown is controlled by four Player Scoring Control relays: AA, BX, CC & DD. There is one for each player and only one should be active at a time. The 1 point scoring schematic is shown below as an example:
Happy Clown Balls Played (resized).jpgHappy Clown Balls Played (resized).jpg
So when the N/1 point relay fires and closes the N switch, only one of the four 1 point score reels should advance based on which of the four Player Scoring Control relays is active.

The first thing to check is that only one of the four Player Scoring Control relays is ever active at once. If that's true, examine the switches on each of those relays to make sure that they all open and close as expected when the relay fires and that there are no shorts between them.

If you find that more than one Player Scoring Control relay can fire at at time, look into the Balls Played Unit which is probably a stepper unit with at least 20 positions. It's possible that the Balls Played unit is not working well because it's dirty, worn, loose, etc. It may be activating more than one Player Scoring Control relay at a time. If it is, it's likely activating two consecutive players' relays (e.g. player 1 and player 2, or player 2 and player 3, etc.) rather multiple random players' relays.

The Balls Played stepper has two solenoids, one to reset and another to advance it by one position. You should be able to push the plunger of the advance solenoid all the way into the solenoid, release it, and have the stepper springs advance the stepper cleanly to the next step. It shouldn't be sluggish or intermittent and all of the wipers should land on or very close to the center of the contacts below.

/Mark

#3 5 years ago

Mark, yes you right its that unit, tried to clean switches and contacts but does not give improvement.
Need to complete overhaul this unit.
Thanks for your help

#4 5 years ago

Mark
After complete overhaul ball, played unit and most of the problems solved, only one remain.
Machine is on three balls game
One player game you get three balls and after loosing the third ball. Game over. So ok

Two player game after loosing the third ball on player two firth and fifth ball are given for player one and two and loosing the last fifth ball on player two it switch to player four and game end if loosing that ball. ???????

Three player game al,three players got three balls and game over. So ok

Four player game all players got three balls and game over. So ok

Any suggestion??

#5 5 years ago

I think there's still a problem in your Balls Played unit. The XB/Last Ball relay should fire on the last ball of the game regardless of how many players there are:
Happy Clown XB relay (resized).jpgHappy Clown XB relay (resized).jpg
On a 3 ball, 1 player game, the XB relay fires when the Balls Played unit reaches position 8. On a 3 ball, 2 player game, the Normally Closed switch on PB2 opens so the XB relay doesn't fire until the Balls Played unit reaches position 9 through the path shown in red. I'm pretty sure that the PB2 switch is working since a 1 player game works fine. So the problem may be with position 9 of your Balls Played unit.

If your XB relay does not fire on the last ball of a 2 player, 3 ball game, unplug the game before the ball drains and have a look at the Balls Played unit. (Or you can just shut off the power, reset the Balls Played unit and advance it manually 9 times.) Assuming it's in position 9 there should be a short circuit (or an ohm or less on your multimeter) between the maroon-white and maroon-orange wires through the Balls Played unit. If not you may find a wire has broken off or a contact is worn or something like that.

#6 5 years ago

Little bit confused about the redline is that not showing 5 ball game??
Albert

Sorry , you,re right its the two player. 3 balls game

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Lambecka:

Little bit confused about the redline is that not showing 5 ball game??

Yeah, me too. But I convinced myself that the schematic is wrong. I think the 3 and 5 labels on the 3-5 ball adjust are reversed. If the schematic were correct, the Last Ball relay would fire sooner for 5 ball games (Ball Count unit positions 8-11) than for 3 ball games (Ball Count unit positions 16-19).

You could compare the schematic and wire colors against the game to know for sure.

#8 5 years ago

Mark,
Did exact as you described and place the unit in the 9th position and measured with voltmeter between maroon white and maroon orange , there was a circuit of more then 1 ohm.
???? Checked also some old solders of this unot and made new ones if required.
Problem remains for the two player 3balls game

#9 5 years ago

How does the resistance of the 9th position through the Balls Played unit compare to the resistance between the maroon and maroon-orange wires when unit is in the 8th position? Are they about the same?

Does the XB relay fire on player 2, ball 3? If not, the problem may be elsewhere in that path.

If you clip an alligator test lead between the maroon-orange and maroon-white wires does the came end at player 2 ball 3? If not, try bypassing other switches in that circuit.

#10 5 years ago

Mark,
Thanks , some work to do over the weekend, will,let youmknow outcome
Albert

#11 5 years ago

Mark, did some quick checks.
With jumper between m orange and m white in the ninth position same fault.
Resistance position 8 between. M orange and m compare to ninth position almost the same around. 1ohm.
The xb relais does not fire after loosing the third bal player two in three ball game
I do not have much experience with gotlieb flippers , makes it difficult , they are different compare to williams and bally

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from Lambecka:

The xb relais does not fire after loosing the third bal player two in three ball game

I think that XB should fire sometime during the last ball, not after the last ball. Check to see when it fires on a 1 player game so you know when to expect it to fire on a 2 player game.

If there's a good electrical path through the Balls Played unit in position 9, work your way out with your meter to find where the resistance increases (with the power off, right?):
Happy Clown XB relay 2 (resized).jpgHappy Clown XB relay 2 (resized).jpg
Start with both meter probes where you had them before on the maroon-orange and maroon-wires, and the Balls Played unit in position 9. You should see no more than an ohm or so of resistance. If that's true, then move the probe from the maroon-white wire to the wire between the PB4 and QB switches to include a bit more of the circuit in your measurement. The resistance shouldn't change substantially. Keep moving that one probe further from the Balls Played unit to the other points shown on the QB and SB switches, each time including a little more of the circuit in your measurement. Since those switches should all be closed you should see about the same resistance at each point. Note that with the power off you may need to manually close some of those switches to measure the low resistance.

If you can measure the same low resistance between maroon-orange and the wire on the right side of the SB relay switch, leave one probe at the SB relay switch and start moving the other probe to the left in the schematic. Note that if you move a probe to the left of the B relay switch you'll need to close the B relay manually.

Somewhere in the red circuit is an open circuit that prevents the XB relay from firing. By moving the meter probes methodically through the circuit you should be able to narrow in on where the problem is.

#13 5 years ago

Mark,
Took me a while and some headache, but finally succesfull.
Followed your instructions and did follow the maroon white wire., through the ball played unit i expected to find something,but measurements showed that unit functioned ok. Look further on the redline and circuit stopped at the junction plate with jones plugs where connection between backbox and lowerbox been made.
Very difficult to visual see ,because broken solder was underneath all the other wires.
On the photo i bend it a little to,make it visible on picture .
Many thank for your help and patience.
Old sixties machine runs again withour any failure.

CA613FCC-D190-4967-92F4-DF0A1C68B18E (resized).jpegCA613FCC-D190-4967-92F4-DF0A1C68B18E (resized).jpeg
6 months later
#14 4 years ago

Hello there, I am new on pinside and only own a Gottlieb Happy Clown ,and a Williams Space Mission Pinball machine, on my happy clown I have the following problem, on the fourth player score reel during the 4. game the 100s reel does not advance, and on the 5. game also on the 4. player score reel the 10s does not advance. Everything else works fine. Any ideas? Thank you in advance, greeting from cold Switzerland Cheers Ruedi

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