(Topic ID: 98241)

Gottlieb Grand Slam help needed.


By the4horse

6 years ago



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  • 57 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 77 days ago by Teamhex
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 years ago

Hi,
I picked up a beat up Grand Slam a few weeks ago and have managed to get it running but I need some help.
The cockroach's have called it home for the last 20 years and `they have devoured anything made of paper...if anyone has some info regarding the size of the four fuses and what the switches do that would be great. Also, what size rubber is needed that goes around the back of the roto targets? The one I put in allows the ball to get stuck. The ball also gets stuck down one of the side lanes which is a bit weird. Anyway, the bumper's work now after I replaced the metal plate which had dislodged from the rods, the roto target spins but doesn't score, the lanes don't score either and one of the flippers gets a little stuck. Everything else is working well though the ball usually takes a few tries before it's ejected. Any help, especially with identifying the mechanics and fuses would be great (240v power here...not sure if that changes the fuse amps)

#2 6 years ago

I can get you some pics of the internals. Hopefully you have a cir diagram...

Meanwhile I anotated section of the cir diagram to help explain the base logic.

Good luck with the game.

72GSscoringandsettingBases.JPG 72GSbaseresets.JPG 72GScascade.JPG
#3 6 years ago
Quoted from the4horse:

I picked up a beat up Grand Slam a few weeks ago and have managed to get it running

Hi, the4horse
Nice,to see another EM being saved from extinction.

#4 6 years ago

Thanks guys. It nearly ended up as a coffee table, and I couldn't let that happen. It was originally from Cairns where I grew up so there's a good chance I played it as a kid!

#5 6 years ago

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#6 6 years ago

one more

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#7 6 years ago

"Everything else is working well though the ball usually takes a few tries before it's ejected" I had a super soccer that was like that and it ended up being more mechanical. The bracket that holds the solenoid under the playing field was bent inward from years of use, but when I bent it back out (at a 90 degree to the playing field), it had enough power to eject the ball...just by increasing the travel.

I know...weird solution to a weird problem, but cleaning the contacts didn't fit it, so knew it was mechanical.
Worth a shot!
Joe

#8 6 years ago

yea, there is anorther fix for ball eject, an extra finger in the hole to make sure the ball sits in the cradle properly...

#9 6 years ago

Thanks for going to all that trouble pinhead 52. Sorry to be a pain, but do you know the amps of the fuse near the transformer?

Thanks Jodini, I'll check if that part is bent...that makes perfect sense!

#10 6 years ago

you need a circuit diagram! I'll check mine

#11 6 years ago

Just for the record, i think Pinhead52 has owned or worked on probably 3-5 of these at some point. I had one as well, and have seen several others for sale within 200 miles of me over the last year. This game must've been super popular on location in the Ark/LA/TX/OK areas..

#12 6 years ago

4grandslam-853.jpg

Frax, you may be right about that....here's a pic of 4 GrandSlams I arranged for at the 2013 TPF. Why, Ive even killed one off that was in serious shape. Yes that makes 5

4grandslam.jpg
#13 6 years ago

Anyone know the amps of the fuse nearest the transformer? Is it a slo - blo fuse?

#14 6 years ago

Typical Gottlieb of that period would be 5Amp Slo-Blo.

#15 6 years ago

Thanks Dirtflipper!

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from the4horse:

Everything else is working well though the ball usually takes a few tries before it's ejected.

Sometime the hole gets worn which sounds like the symptoms your experiencing.
I have done this mod on both a Bally and a Gottlieb and it works great.

http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0397.html

#17 6 years ago

I bent the arm a bit and it seems to work well delivering the ball to the shooter lane.
I took both flippers out as they were gunked up and sticking and now they're all good.
I just need to figure out why none of the lanes register points, and the standup targets and the roto targets...are they all controlled by the same coil / switches? The scoring's a bit off too as I seem to be getting too many runs and way too many points.

#18 6 years ago

I noticed today that the triple relay locks on and gets quite hot. Still no scoring on any lanes or roto targets. Reels aren't resetting either??

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from the4horse:

Reels aren't resetting either??

On the up above post ^[ 20140725_194736.jpg 360 KB] on the score motor,see the 1A- inside switch [clean /adjust if needed ] position resets the score units, thats as far as i can help without a schematic.

#20 6 years ago

The triple relay...there is a rollover for a triple, check the gap.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

The triple relay...there is a rollover for a triple, check the gap.

Gaps are all good...there's a click from under the playfield and no score registering.
It's not just one rollover, it's all of them plus the roto target that's not registering...

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

On the up above post ^[ 20140725_194736.jpg 360 KB] on the score motor,see the 1A- inside switch [clean /adjust if needed ] position resets the score units, thats as far as i can help without a schematic.

Had a good look at the motor...all the gaps appear correct and have been cleaned. It's quite erratic with the 5inch bell going off at random times like when the ball hits the bumpers and the slingshots...weird.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from the4horse:

It's quite erratic with the 5inch bell going off at random times like when the ball hits the bumpers and the slingshots...weird.

Bang on the PF and see if the bell fires. If so, see if you can bang in different parts of the PF and it fires more/less frequently.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from newmantjn:

Bang on the PF and see if the bell fires. If so, see if you can bang in different parts of the PF and it fires more/less frequently.

No, the bell doesn't ring if you bang different parts of the playfield.
When you go through the the triple rollovers the triple coil locks on and all the other rollovers don't lock coils on but don't register points either.

#25 6 years ago

Is your hit unit working? Lower right on bottom board, it will advance 5 (4?) steps any time there is a base play? One of the things it does is release the triple, double, single relays after advancing the runners. you can actuate it by hand. there is a contact that rides on the outside of the bakalite wheel that opens at the neutral position, otherwise keeps the score motor running...

Ken

#26 6 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Is your hit unit working? Lower right on bottom board, it will advance 5 (4?) steps any time there is a base play? One of the things it does is release the triple, double, single relays after advancing the runners. you can actuate it by hand. there is a contact that rides on the outside of the bakalite wheel that opens at the neutral position, otherwise keeps the score motor running...
Ken

And sometihing to look closely at. I worked on a Grand Slam that couldn't correctly add or move men on the bases. Timing is critical as it advances the 4 or 5 steps talked about above. What ended up being the problem was a really worn out Hit unit (what I would have called the Man Run Unit). This unit had seen so much use the wiper/bakelite portion was really sloppy. You could grab it with your fingers and wiggle it all around. So, it wouldn't sit properly over each rivet head and was very unreliable with the contact closures on the switch that rides on the outside edge of the bakelite.

As I recall, I had to transfer parts from another stepper unit to do the repair. But I can't remember which parts. Possibly ratchet wheel and bushing/bearing?

I had never seen a Gottlieb stepper that worn out. But, if you watch it in action, you can see how it gets used a lot in the process of playing that game.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Is your hit unit working? Lower right on bottom board, it will advance 5 (4?) steps any time there is a base play? One of the things it does is release the triple, double, single relays after advancing the runners. you can actuate it by hand. there is a contact that rides on the outside of the bakalite wheel that opens at the neutral position, otherwise keeps the score motor running...

I think you're spot on as nothing run related is scoring properly and that's the one unit I didn't really rebuild. I actually wasn't sure what it did to be honest!

Quoted from CactusJack:

I had never seen a Gottlieb stepper that worn out. But, if you watch it in action, you can see how it gets used a lot in the process of playing that game.

I hope mine's not that badly worn...there doesn't appear to be too much wear that you described, but I'll get in there and have a good look on the weekend.

I also noticed a wire that has come off the rivet head, but it's on the unit in the headbox. Maybe something similar has happened on the hit unit?

#28 6 years ago

Yea, look at the contact that rides on the outside of the wheel, NO at the neutral position, NC when the wheel starts. five advances to the next neutral.

[attachment=1820655,]
#29 6 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Yea, look at the contact that rides on the outside of the wheel, NO at the neutral position, NC when the wheel starts. five advances to the next neutral.

When I started fixin her up, I cleaned all the little contacts lightly with 1200grit sandpaper and got rid of any grime with methylated spirits. The coil has power and smoothly turns the wheel. I cleaned the switch also but I didn't take notice of the number of advances. I did notice the switch was opening and closing well. How do I tell if it's in the neutral position besides the switch being open?

I really appreciate the help, I spent ages cleaning, rebuilding etc etc and thought I had everything sorted, but it's proving a bit of a challenge. I've never dealt with the roto targets before and haven't come across the hit unit either. I tried playing it today and still get the bell instead of the chimes and now I've only got the flippers working!

#30 6 years ago

I noticed that one of the hit unit switch contacts was badly pitted so I filed it smooth, cleaned the terminals again and now when I start a game the scores all zero'd (yay) but the score motor continues running
I still think I'm on the right track...

#31 6 years ago

When the score motor runs, the relay for the 'tens' 'run' score reel locks on. I checked the reels and switches and they're okay so I checked the playfield switches which all appear fine. I'm not sure what else might be causing this...any ideas?

#32 6 years ago

I'm working through a Gottlieb Baseball machine with the help of some great Pinsiders, and running into some of the same issues. I've resolved most of mine, but still muddling through the hit unit. I don't have a schematic for your machine (and frankly can't read Gottlieb schematics very well), but I think I can help with one point...

Quoted from the4horse:

I tried playing it today and still get the bell instead of the chimes and now I've only got the flippers working!

If your game is anything like mine, the bell should only be ringing when runs are being scored. If your hit unit is working properly, this may mean a stuck playfield switch.

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

and frankly can't read Gottlieb schematics very well

Me too!

Quoted from drsfmd:

If your hit unit is working properly, this may mean a stuck playfield switch.

I'll keep looking for that stuck switch. I was thinking it had to be something that scores a 'run' but so far, nothing.
Good luck with the remaining issues with your machine.

#34 6 years ago

Evn though your score rels reset it doesn't mean there 'home' Check the zero position switch(s)on score reels and make sure clean and adjusted properly...easy check easy fix and hopefully that will end your 'runs'. : )

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

Check the zero position switch(s)on score reels and make sure clean and adjusted properly...easy check easy fix and hopefully that will end your 'runs'. : )

Nah, that was the first thing I checked...still have those 'runs'

#36 6 years ago

you said your triple relay was locked on...

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

you said your triple relay was locked on...

When I could start the game and the ball went through the 'triple' lanes that relay would lock on. Since 'tinkering' with the run stepper, I just have the score motor running so unsure if it still will do this. Now it's just the 'tens' run score reel relay that locks on.

#38 6 years ago

If its the scoring relay...then the contact that actually drives the reel solinoid is dirty. Clean and gap the contacts on the relay, "M" relay? untill the reel turns and open the release contact the relay locks on.

1 week later
#39 6 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

If its the scoring relay...then the contact that actually drives the reel solinoid is dirty. Clean and gap the contacts on the relay, "M" relay? untill the reel turns and open the release contact the relay locks on.

I cleaned and gapped the contacts and the reel zeros everytime I advance it off zero, but then the relay locks on again. Perhaps it's in the roto target area which is where I'll look next.

Any suggestions would be appreciated as to why the second reel of the 'run score reel' is locking on.

#40 6 years ago

you have a dirty or mis-gapped contact on the "locked on" relay, that drives the reel. with a small screwdriver you can short each pair of contacts on the relay and you'll discover which set drives the relay. once the reel fires it opens a contact that drops the relay.

#41 6 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

you have a dirty or mis-gapped contact on the "locked on" relay, that drives the reel. with a small screwdriver you can short each pair of contacts on the relay and you'll discover which set drives the relay. once the reel fires it opens a contact that drops the relay.

Shorting each pair of contacts didn't do anything. I disconnected the playfield & the motor still runs, so it's not a playfield switch. While the score motor continually turns I can manually advance each reel to 1 and it will spin round to the zero position. The Z relay remains locked on the whole time.

I guess I'll check all the relays on the bottom of the cabinet & in the backbox again in case one's not adjusted properly.

#42 6 years ago

Ok, so its still a startup issue... Take alligator clips and jumper the zero position switch on each reel, dont forget the run reels as well. If you had the circuit diagram you could trace the daisy chain wire that runs thru all the reels.
I'll get you a scan..

#43 6 years ago

I'm not sure how to 'jumper' the zero switch?

#44 6 years ago

4horse

just take a alligator clip and put it on the 2 blades temporarily close the 0 position switch on the score reel

--Jeff

#45 6 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

just take a alligator clip and put it on the 2 blades temporarily close the 0 position switch on the score reel

Thanks Jeff.
Still, the z relay is locking on. I'll check the 'v' relay & the 'vb' relay(if I can find it) & motor 2b.

#46 6 years ago

can you post the part of the schematic with the z relay.

-Jeff

#47 6 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

can you post the part of the schematic with the z relay.

I haven't got the schematic. The Z relay is on the far left in the backbox.
I have the startup sheet that states;

When V relay coil is actuated it is locked in by the armature of VB coil (had cockroaches eat all the paper labels so not sure which coil this is.)
A switch on the V relay closes and actuates the Z relay
Thru closed switches on Z the point score and run scores reset thru switches on motor 1A & motor 4A.
When all reels reset to zero motor 2B makes, VB relay is actuated.
This releases armature on V relay and opens the switch that actuated the Z relay.
Reset complete.

So, if anyone can pinpoint the VB relay, that'd be good.

#48 6 years ago

Any luck fixing your Grand Slam?

#49 6 years ago

No, thought someone with a Grand Slam might have had a similar issue.
I've isolated the fault to the cabinet board. I disconnected the playfield and the motor kept running, then I reattached and disconnected the backbox connectors and the motor kept running. I think it's a switch on the score motor as that was the only thing I touched after I had it working last. Except they have all been cleaned and are working correctly??

#50 6 years ago

The score motor will keep running if the backbox is disconnected, as it can't detect that the reels have reached zero.

Once you have the schematic, checking the path to the score motor logic is quick.

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